"5Core Brigade Commander:Soviet Battle Drill" Topic

I have not played these yet, but have done several readings. Given each stand is a company, there should be a method for moving a battalion with one activation. Has anyone looked at this? Any ideas?

I'm thinking as long as the move in and end facing the same direction it would work (pretty much the same as in GDW's Assault series).

For the skirmish rules, I've experimented with an option to activate three nearby elements if all their actions are movement without firing.

A simpler option is to give +1 activations if all the units are near each other and from the same formation.

If you want to toy with keeping soviets and NATO distinct, give the Soviet player the option of a free Scurry turn (or even a few) to use when he sees fit.
NATO gets a firefight turn instead.

You can use the "bonus" turn instead of rolling, at any time during battle.

From a game design perspective, I'd lean towards things that are interesting choices (I can do this but I'll lose this other option) rather than straight bonuses.

(Lastly, and I really really really don't mean this to be condescending, but do test the rules first :-)

Some things in the flow of the game are not immediately obvious from reading and you may save some frustration that way.
The game is meant to be modified and tweaked, but its easier to do when you have a solid grasp on what is going on)

Does any of that help?

best wishes
Ivan

I'm coming from a long background of Cold War gaming, some at 1:1 scale. If I have a Soviet regiment attacking a NATO battalion (9+ units of Soviets vs. 4+ NATO units) and I'm moving one unit(stand) per activation it just looks hard to swamp NATO.

But then I can put 3-4 Tank Regiments on the table at BC scale

They'll come on in waves, representing worse coordination ;)

The suggestion of free Scurry moves would let them swarm forward and get in position, where they can begin interdicting everything with reaction fire and artillery packets.

Lock down the battle area while the spearhead battalion moves in for the kill :)

As troops bail or get gunned down, the second echelon gets moved up, while the remnants hold the ground they've taken.

I was looking at using the Battalion Activation rule (Weasel's second point above). If you put a radius around the formation in order to use the rule, you'll likely handicap NATO trying to use it, but the Soviets should be able to do it.

Yea, at some point, NATO starts running out of those top-notch HEAT, or other AP rounds, and has to start using the inferior ones, or retreating to replenish their ammo.

Running a solo play test my Soviets rolled something like three scurries in a row, forcing my NATO troops to back peddle to keep from getting swamped.

I do think that it can be hard to take advantage of numbers … I do like some of the suggestions. I may have to try them out.

Because of the way the turn sequence works, you have to think of the numbers a little bit differently.

A turn isn't always a fixed amount of time either :)

You could always give the Soviets a greater chance of a scurry (a 1 or 2?)… so they can roll on like a juggernaut, but then not be too overwhelming in combat

Or let them assault on scurries, though that falls into the "messing with sacred cows" area :)

And that is about the time you play the tactical nuke asset….

@Saber6,
Why are you only moving one unit per activation ? It is one per 3 units fielded so if you have a regiment of four battalion battalions each of 3 companies you should have at least a battalion equivalent moving on a standard turn. Do in your example you should be moving 3 companies a turn.

Scurry lets you move everything. So at the level of abstraction it isn't unrealistic to have the amount of actions confined to specific units, either realigning or moving to be in a supporting position

Why are you only moving one unit per activation ? It is one per 3 units fielded so if you have a regiment of four battalion battalions each of 3 companies you should have at least a battalion equivalent moving on a standard turn. Do in your example you should be moving 3 companies a turn.

But then the other battalion sit. Scurry might be the answer. I'm also thinking on how to deploy from the march (a big feature of Battle Drills). I know there are no Formation in the rules, but old habot die hard (having been "tail End Charile" to a Tank Battlion a few times, lots of things can be moving at once)

You know, I put the "wave attack" asset in there for a reason :-)

Bear in mind that a turn isn't a fixed 10 minutes or whatever.
Sometimes the camera zooms in as one battalion fights through.
Then we zoom out and see what the other parts of the brigade were doing. It's a bit hard to explain :)

I don't think its too hard to explain, at least my conceptualization of it. The c2 mechanism represents the commander's focus, overplayed with the concept that the commander can't do everything all the time, or can't be everywhere all the time. Even in the age of (relatively) reliable radio communications the CO must choose where to put his emphasis in a given time period.

This is not to belittle small-unit leadership, just to make combat leadership (at the echelon selected, be it squad, platoon or company) more pronounced.

In this vane, to say that the WarPac would simply swamp NATO is to say NATO didn't have a say in the matter, that NATO wouldn't use air to interdict, arty to break up formations, and mines to channelized so that long range direct fires could be used in concert with movement to dodge WarPac's (relatively) sluggish indirect fire and avoid being swamped.

If WarPac can move everything each turn, then yes, NATO will be swamped, but that doesn't allow NATO to do anything to not be swamped, and that certainly wasn't NATO's plan ;)

I think the current activation system gives a great balance, with a chance that a lucky scurry lets WarPac swamp or a lucky firefight that lets NATO pummel at standoff range, and where a key asset to 'battalion move' or 'shoot and scoot' can make a decisive difference if effected at the appropriate moment.

Just my two cents.

V/R,
Jack

Jack, I think you have good points there. As a new player to the system it has taken a little bit of time to get comfortable with the system. The activation system can be a bit aggravating when you a spending points on getting units to recover… which I suspect is rather realistic. I was telling Weasel that a ran a playtest with a lot of WarPac units vs a smaller amount of NATO units and the results felt 'realistic'… if you can say that for a hypothetical war. Fortunately there is a lot of chrome added to the game that you can tweak things you don't like. Close combat is the one thing that I may like to see tweaked… I had a BAOR tank battalion on a hill being attacked by a WP mech unit… the mech unit gets the +1 for the charge… it seemed odd that the WP unit would have the benefit so I ended up making hills a terrain feture that negates that +1

Creativeguy,

I know what you mean about taking time to get comfortable. I saw the rules "5 Men in Normandy" advertised, saw a batrep posted, and, being a bit of a rules junkie I purchased them.

My first thought was, "this Nordic Weasel dude is a @#$%ing weirdo!" ;)

Then I did a playtest, and I really thought he was a weirdo. I went away from it for a little bit, but it kept bugging me, aggravating me, so I went back to it, didn't like it, then made a bunch of changes and played a few games. They were okay, but then I started really looking at it, and went back to the rules as written. I've been having a blast ever since, particularly with the Company Command rules. Much to my shame, I still haven't even played a game of Brigade Commander…

I agree the chrome and 'tweak-ability' is fantastic; I think it's impossible to break the activation and combat systems (and believe me, I've tried!). My guess would be that no two guys are playing the rules the same way, but it's perfect in that it gives YOU the game you're looking for. Yes, I'm a fan ;)

Regarding your situation of being frustrated at having to use activations to rally units, this is where I differ with the Brigade Commander rules: I would treat it like the Company Command rules, where there's a command stand on the table and it gets to move each turn for 'free,' and if it touches a pinned/hunkered/man down unit (use the Brigade Commander terms) they get to attempt to rally.

Another deal is that (I'm pretty sure it's the same as 5MIN and Company Command), if a unit in good shape moves up/over into base contact with a unit in bad shape, they get to try to rally.

Regarding your tank battalion on a hill getting close assaulted by the mech unit, I disagree, I wouldn't give the tank unit a +1 for being on the hill. But that's the beauty of it, you do what feels right to you. My perspective is, the mech unit seized the initiative, and the tank unit screwed up by letting the mech unit get close enough to close assault them, and even then they get the opportunity to snap fire and stop the mech unit in its tracks. So if the mech unit manages to get close enough, and doesn't get stopped by snap fire, the tank unit gets what's coming to it ;)

V/R,
Jack

Jack,

I didn't give the tank the +1… I just didn't give the mech unit the +1…. I am sure I will continue to tinker as your point makes sense. I know there are a lot of historical exceptions (Mujaba Hill comes to mind) but I do think you should generally have some advantage holding the high ground. Fortunately, I have time to tinker in my solo games…. when I roll it our against a friend I will probably play it as is.

Omitting the +1 is pretty close to the "lose on a draw" mechanic that I am pretty fond of for stuff that is situational.

Creativeguy,

I gotcha. And I don't mean to be contrarian, I just like to discuss wargames: my argument against the 'evening out' via the +1 for higher ground, my opinion is that higher ground meant a lot more for combat outcomes in earlier times, but with modern (possibly WWII to present), the effects of higher ground on combat outcomes is pretty minimal.

Our whole point for wanting higher ground was observation, which was used to call in supporting fires.

And don't listen to Ivan/Weasel, he doesn't know anything about wargames ;)

V/R,
Jack

Jack, it was a steep hill… With really jaggy edges… And some nasty shrubbery….

Jack gets kind of sensitive about hills in general ;)