"How low can a SA-2B track?" Topic

OK I'm reading Bryant's' "Flying Low" he recounts a raid on Hanoi where he writes of being shot at by SAMs from 200 feet to 1000 feet. Could an SA-2 track that low? He was flying was flying away over flat ground.

From the book, running down a main drag of Hanio at near building level;

"Then, in the space of about five seconds, the flak stopped, we were out of the street and over the river again, and then we were at the target. I climbed to two hundred feet, and the seeds came off. The plane ballooned up when the eleven thousand pounds of weapons were released, and the first SAM came right up our tail. Phil shouted a warning into the ICS. "SAM, SAM, SAM at six o'clock!" I could see a rosy glow in the rear view mirrors that I assumed was the approaching missile, and I broke hard right and down. We were almost upside down in a 120- degree- bank turn descending through two hundred feet when the SAM went off a little behind us and outside our turn radius. I snapped the wings level on a southeasterly heading. "Another SAM at six," Phil said. We were below a hundred feet now, and I was reluctant to go any lower right there. "It's tracking . . . it's tracking," Phil said, his voice growing ever louder. Then, "Pull!" I pulled for all I was worth. We soared skyward, and the SAM detonated below us. Phil called another one: "SAM closing!" We were now climbing through four thousand feet. Then Phil screamed, "It's got us! It's got us!" Rolling inverted, I pulled until I felt the plane shudder near a stall. The missile went off above us as the plane's nose came down into a steep dive. I rolled upright, and again pulled until I felt the plane nibble at a high- speed stall. The fireball from the last SAM had illuminated the Red River almost under us, and I dropped the starboard wing a little so that we'd pull out over the water. We might need the extra few feet. "SAM at six," Phil called. There was nothing more I could do. Right then I was more worried about slamming into the river than about the damn missile. The SAM went off a little above us right as we bottomed out. The flash lit up tiny ripples on the water a few feet below. We came up out of that maneuver like a scalded cat and clawed our way up the wall headed for higher altitudes. I picked what I figured was the shortest route to the sea and ran for it."

Brian K. Bryants' "Flying Low"

Nothing I have read said a SA-2 could track below 3000 feet. this was before the Vietmanese had developed optical tracking.

OK just saw this. Not an easy question, technically an SA-2 was unlikely to track anything below 3,000ft and incapable of tracking below 1,000. However, theoretically SA-2's had a 60-70% chance of destroying their target. Yeah right. While a SA-2 shouldn't have been able to track a maneuvering target at that height given the right conditions and enough good/bad luck (Depending on which end of the missile you were at.) and yes it appears from anecdotal evidence like above that it could and did happen. whether it happened often enough to make it worth including in a wargame is open to question. Sorry I know I haven't really answered your question.

Fatman

Perhaps the anecdotes, or info on the SA-2's optical tracking is incorrect.

Earlier variants were restricted to the 1,000 – 3,000 ft. altitude, but that has been progressively improved, especially with optical tracking, down to as low as 100 – 300 feet, or so, if the info I've read is accurate.

IIRC, newer variants of the SA-2 (which is a really old missile) can engage down to a few hundred feet.

I suspect it is possible that instead of North Vietnamese crews, they might have had some Russian/Soviet advisors, and/or missile personnel that knew a trick or two, or perhaps they did share that knowledge with the North Vietnamese.

We didn't bomb their sites early during the war, as many of them were being constructed, for just that reason. since we didn't want to involve the Soviets any more than they already were.

On further reading the Vietnamese might have been using a command guidance method. Where the fire the missile in the general direction and give it manual guidance and detonation. They wouldn't have a lock, they would just do their best to try steer it using radar screens, and try to detonate near by. Later in 1970 they would add optical guidance. I suspect they were ed at the NAVY, and just volleyed missiles at them. The Soviets thought the Vietmanese fired SA-2 like machine guns.

The chances of a hit were slim to none, not like the aircrew thought that at the moment, and all that jinking around no doubt blew the controllers aim.