"How big a playing area do you need?" Topic
15 Posts
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acctingman1869 | 14 Apr 2015 1:45 p.m. PST |
I'm thinking of doing some ww2 naval gaming (solo) So, I have two questions. #1) Can you recommend some rules for solo play that isn't super chart heavy? #2) How big of an area do you need to have to play? I'm shooting for some surface action of course, but planes vs ships too. I'm assuming smaller the scale the better the "view" in sense of space, etc…. |
Captain Gideon | 14 Apr 2015 2:01 p.m. PST |
acctingman I can't answer your first question since I don't know Naval rules that well. As to your second question it all depends on the scale for myself my friends and I have played many Naval games over the years from small actions like River Plate to somewhat larger Battles. I would say 1/2400th scale would be good for most small surface actions say 10-20 ships per side and you can also put in aircraft as well in this scale. But if you want larger actions say Jutland for example then 1/6000th would be the best scale for that since you would've 50 ships or more per side. I have in 1/6000th scale the entire Japanese,German and Italian Fleets of WWII plus ships that never were built and for the Allies I have a decent American,British and French force of ships on that side. So if you want to do small surface actions go 1/2400th scale and if you want to go large then 1/6000th scale would be the best bet. |
acctingman1869 | 14 Apr 2015 2:02 p.m. PST |
I know GHQ does the nicest 1/2400, but who makes the nicest 1/6000 scale stuff? |
Bozkashi Jones | 14 Apr 2015 3:01 p.m. PST |
I've just got some Figurehead/Hallmark 1:6000 – they are beautiful casts. I'm very loyal to Navwar (sentimentality and nostalgia for my teenage years), but I have to admit that Hallmarks are crisper and more detailed, despite being half the scale. In answer to your questions, bearing in mind there are many here far more experienced than I, then I would say: 1) Rules I play Victory at Sea with my boy; fun, but at the low end of the accuracy/simulation stakes. Chart wise it's simple: you throw the dice and compare the target score, with some simple modifiers, then throw some more and cross off a few boxes. I also have Battlestations! Battlestations! which I've read through but not played. These look good and are designed for big battles If you're playing solo a ruleset designed for 20 ships a side may be an idea if you're doing the administration for both sides; you'd be able to handle 10 ships a side easily. There's very little paperwork; damage is marked using counters placed on the ship's base, for example, and each ship data summary is no more than one line of text. I have played General Quarters solo many years ago and they work really well too; the paperwork is, for my money, the neatest and best designed of any naval game I've played and it strikes a balance between detail and abstraction. 2) Paying area Victory at Sea: all scenarios use a 6' x 4' table. If you fall off the edge of the world you disengage. Battlestations! Battlestations!: The included scenarios include River Plate (6' x 5'), up to Guadacanal (9' x 5'). General Quarters: No included scenarios, but the playing area is suggested (from memory) as 10' x 10'. Hope this helps, Nick |
NappyBuff | 14 Apr 2015 3:07 p.m. PST |
#1 – not really. If I knew you better, maybe. #2 – depends on ruleset. As for solo games, have you thught about boardgames? Tokyo Express is a good solo naval game. Its not that chart heavy. |
Sundance | 14 Apr 2015 3:12 p.m. PST |
I've played a variety of rules and scales requiring anywhere from 4 x 4 or so, up to a living room floor (River Platte with 1/6000 at 1' = 1 nm). |
Admiral Bob | 15 Apr 2015 2:23 a.m. PST |
I also have a lot of 1/6000 ships painted. As I have stopped playing naval wargames, I could sell them to you. If you're interested, please conatct me at rbreuer at cool dot lu |
M C MonkeyDew | 15 Apr 2015 5:24 a.m. PST |
1. NWS games "No Safe Port" and "Steel and Resolve" are DIY boardgames that have full solo rules included. link They can be played with miniatures but I prefer to use their solo component with other games like: A. All at Sea agema.org.uk/page31a.html For most engagements. Very simple to use. Campaign rules, etc. B: Sea Wars: Fleet Actions link Think of this almost as an operational level game where your concern is coordinating formations in your fleet rather than managing individual ships. 2 Both games are designed for 1/6000 models on a 4' x 6' surface. 4'x 8' allowed me to build Iron Bottom Sound from about Henderson to just past Savo at 1"=1000 yards. Hope this helps. Happy to field questions. Bob |
hindsTMP | 15 Apr 2015 9:40 a.m. PST |
1) General Quarters I (available from Navwar) and if you can find them General Quarters II (which upgrades GQ1 and adds WWI). General Quarters III is also good and available, but is chart-heavy. link link 2) 1/6000 scale Figurehead ships. For small actions, like Denmark Straight or River Platte, table can be as small as 4' x 4'. All you do is adjust the ground scale. Mark H. |
acctingman1869 | 15 Apr 2015 10:22 a.m. PST |
Think I'm scratching this endeavor. WW2 naval isn't my favorite (land, air, naval). I'm going to go the route of PC game (Victory at Sea) to scratch that naval "itch" and since I'm going solo, I just can't justify spending $1,000 USD on mini's/paint for something I'm NOT that into. Now, there is no PC equivalent to ww2 aerial so I'm going mini's there. Thanks for all the suggestions and opening my eyes a little |
Jcfrog | 15 Apr 2015 11:24 a.m. PST |
I currently use 1/6000 with General Quarters3. 1 cm 100y 1 nm = 20 cm If you use the magnificent Ghq, you really need 2cm for 100 otherwise the distances between the front and rear of your divisions columns will be ridiculous. 1.8 mx 2.4 or 3.6 but by night can easily be shorter. One day, I will sell my 1/6000 for 1/4800 CinC and the truly beautiful ones on shapeway: Why Because of the ugly bases on DD and hardly see camo on small ships. A Dd in1/4800 is big as a cruiser in 1/6000 and it has no base ( built in/ half sunk that is) and is enough to see the painting. Then no need to change the " ground" scale. Another trick to gain space: If you don't have tricky divisions entering the sides but content yourself with the good old face to face encounter, you can have at the beginning a sort of line in the middle that will temporarily add say 10000y till everyone gets closer. It makes your table grow by 1 m length. If you have your divisions move on a mobile base that is of the same stuff as the table, it is very easy to relocate everything. There very little more annoying that the end of the world at sea. Unless you have a coast. |
Timmo uk | 15 Apr 2015 12:35 p.m. PST |
I agree with Jcfrog… one day I'll do 1/4800 with CinC and Shapeways. |
OSchmidt | 15 Apr 2015 12:59 p.m. PST |
I have a large collection of 1:1200 WWII and WWI ships. Anything smaller looks like roaches crawling on the table top. I use a simple system from a Naval Wargames book. Basically it takes four to six 24 by 32 pieces of matboard from a framing shop, in colors of whatever ocean you wish. I rule this into 4" squares. You can number the squares if you wish. I put my 1:1200 ships on this with the superstructure in the center of the square. my game has three sizes of ships, capital ships, medium ships, and small ships, and you can have 1, 2, and four ships per square.; Ranges are 8 squares for capital ships, fur for medium and two for small. Ranges are halved at night. Sounds terribly close but I make it work by the "conception I keep in my head. The table top DOES NOT represent a stretch of open sea, but a stretch of open table top in an admiralty plotting room like you see in Sink the Bismark. Makes it all work mentally. NOW The real advantage of the system is you move the ships on themapboard, but if you come to the edge, you just slap another mapboard there and keep moving. When mapboards become vacant you can take them off so a running fight is possible without having to reposition the ships, and when you reposition them, they are repositioned perfectly. The edge of the table top is never the edge of the world and you can make up all sorts of forms of ocean. If a fleet breaks into two parts for example and goes in different directions, you can have the sections they are fighting on next to each other even though many "battleboards" separate them. Of course if you use the cockaroach sized ships it will work better in some ways as well. But I like the image of being in the admiralty bunker safe and sound with Dana Wynter to make the tea. |
hindsTMP | 15 Apr 2015 3:38 p.m. PST |
I'm going to go the route of PC game (Victory at Sea) to scratch that naval "itch" and since I'm going solo, I just can't justify spending $1,000 USD USD on mini's/paint for something I'm NOT that into. OP, Of course you know best what you want to do, but you are overestimating the cost of naval miniatures gaming. To do a small battle like Denmark Strait, you only need 4 ship models. In 1/6000, the average ship price is less than $2.00 USD. Even though Figurehead ship models are sold in packs of about 4 ships each, you are talking less than $50.00 USD for such a small battle, with many extra ship models left over. (For example, to obtain HMS Hood for Denmark Strait, you would buy the Figurehead pack containing Hood, Repulse, and Renown, for $6.50 USD. For KM Bismarck, you would buy the Figurehead pack containing Bismarck and Tirpitz, for $4.50 USD. Etc.) link link Ocean terrain is obviously inexpensive to make. Use the same paints you use for your other miniatures. You can search for and download free simple naval rules on-line. Here are some: link The main hurdle for a newcomer would be in the case where he/she had never done *any* miniatures painting / model making before, and didn't have any pals nearby to show how it's done. Cost should not be an issue though. Mark H. |
Das Sheep | 15 May 2015 6:48 a.m. PST |
I use 1/4800 ships from shapeways to game "what if" scenarios from WWII. Mostly Japan vrs America and Italy vrs France (which is usually a blood bath for the treaty cruisers). I usually use naval thunder. I like that friends can pick up the rules in one day. I do feel that its to easy to hit small ships at a range. If playing at my house we play on an 8x6 table. The best games involve some decent terrain, else which ever side has the longest range guns on its capital ships typically wins. Bad a match where the two French battle cruisers disabled the Italian battle ship and then sunk three heavy cruisers and 3 light cruisers before they could even get in effective range. I would love to have a 10x8 playing area. |
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