"How do you lean politically?" Topic

center of the road all the way

And I look at the GOP and see – and it's an attitude shared by many friends.

Alllllrighty, then….

E. I'm definitely on the Left, and moving further in that direction with each passing year.

US Libertarians, by the definitions I posted (which were not purely economic), are right wing.

If your belief in social liberalism is strong enough to support collective action to promote it, then vote "right with some left views".

If you want, I could have added "special snowflake but votes GOP 100% of the time" for you guys ;-)

* * * * *

For the people upset about "US vs Europe", I included definitions in the OP. Use those.

From an American Perspective, I'm D.
As for affiliation I disagree somewhat with the degree of their stances regarding abortion and the 2nd amendment, but I identify strongly enough with most of the other social, economic and political ideals of the Democratic party to support them and vote that way.

Wasn't a part of the last poll, but I would have been "B/C" in 2003. Been on a slow left-erly shift since then so maybe I'll be D/E or E in another 10 years or so.

Congrats to most of the folks in this topic for keeping it from going off the rails.

On the diagram posted above I'm somewhere in the middle.
In Canada I'd be either a "Red-Tory" or "Blue-Liberal".

Depending on the hot issue of the day and who is running and who has annoyed me I've voted for all four major parties.

So I guess C-E.

It started off the rails.

Sorry to be a pain but why is this thread still here Bill?

Your own Rules of conduct quite clearly state:

This is not the place to discuss any wargamer's political beliefs or affiliations.

Why on earth didn't you gently remind/inform the OP of this rule and nuke the thread?

I .wasn't going to take part, but what the Hell. I believe in the freedoms outlined in our Constitution. That being said I would rather with a cheese grater than . So I guess I'm an A

I would say C – like James, I would be a Red Tory or a Blue Liberal

Me? I am a 'D'.

B for me, especially on social issues. almost always vote Republican, but have been disallusioned of late at the choices we're given.

Gwydion,

file a complaint.

I did.

Then I danced the Dance of Doggy Death knowing Bill would not enforce the rules until enough (or the right) people complained.

Nobody has been DH'ed yet. Waste of a good rule IMNSHO.

Biil,

There's the line in the Sand. Rule and DH many here or admit that the rules mean nothing.

Well?

A firm believer in the US Constitution and proud member of the Tea Party.

Let's keep this in perspective, gents: we all know the lizard people are really in charge.

D, and also a firm believer in the Constitution.

Sorry to be a pain but why is this thread still here Bill?

Tradition? Precedent? He's calling for a poll, not a discussion…

I think i am 100% in Mako's camp..

A recent quote i liked was, "i want gay married couples to be free to defend their pot farms with machine guns"

When it comes to politics, I prefer to lean over the side and hurl.

We've had similar lifestyle polls before, hence a precedent exists that poll questions are given more leeway. *shrug*

If it causes significant distress (and complaints filed), feel free to nuke the thread Bill. I will accept the democratic process ;)

My entire gaming group are Bs!

A

B

D: Left with some right views. but I hate Ayn Rand!

Weasel,
I have nothing against you (or your poll come to that).
What I was trying to draw Bill's attention to was the confusion this causes amongst those of us who have been D/Hd for drawing attention to the political leanings of someone posting on here before.

It was NOT a dhable offence at the time – there was no discussion – I pointed out someone's membership of a party from more than ten years ago. I still got d/hd. Then to make it clear Bill introduced the 'no identifying someone's politics' rule.

I wondered if, as this rule now appears to be in abeyance, I could comment again.

Apparently not.

Apparently I could have a poll asking him to say what he thought his politics were and if they were acceptable.

The difference here seems to be that everyone is stating their own views voluntarily and no one is questioning or debating the views of anyone else.

It's a fine line, but it's probably the reason that the thread has made it to 75 posts with no hut feelings, flaming, D/H'ings or nukings.

E/F

E.

I find Rdfraf's comments about his gaming group being Bs as insightful. Bill Bishop in his book, "The Big Sort", discusses how our states, cities, even neighborhoods are being self sorted into groups of similar lifestyle, class, and political standing. We are all familiar with Blue States and Red States, but we also see within states, blue and red cities, and within cities blue and red parts of town. I Wouldn't be too surprised if that didn't happen in Wargame groups. Our regular group is, with one exception, pretty much E's, while a group up north is A's and B's. Birds of a feather….

It's tough, given that war is, as Clauswitz noted, simply an extension of politics, for politics to not be alluded to within a wargaming group. If everyone is on a similar page, or the rare apolitical person, it makes for a better game for all.

It pops up here for the same reasons, but is probably exaggerated, since for many people it is one place where they are likely to run into people who strongly disagree with them, as opposed to their self-created bubble.
This is underscored by the simple fact that Europe, Oceania, and democratic parts of Asia and South America are decidedly farther to the left than our Republican Party. In most of these places the Democratic Party would be deemed right -center!

The chances are high for our European members to gape in wonder at US politics and they do need a different scale. In France, the closest thing to the GOP would be Le Pen's party. The Tories in England are essentially our Democrats. Israel probably comes as close as any to our scale. The terms Right and Left have far different connotations outside the US. I suspect most of the world sees our politics as an argument between two conservative parties! ;-)

I guess smack down the middle isn't an option.

+1 to what Gwydion says, this thread should be deleted. The OPs definitions of "left" and "right" could be seen as loaded and opinionated but nobody is allowed to discuss that.

Secondly several posters have not simply voted in "a poll" but taken the opportunity to criticize the political views others hold.

Gwydion – no harm done. Ive kind of resigned myself that there is no specific rhyme or reason to how things work :)

Neo reactionary…

So, very much above "A".

Joe Collins

Bill has let me know that he will allow discussion on the framing of this topic.

Left is defined here as social justice, collective responsibility and government involvement in economics

There are plenty on the left who do not agree with government involvement in economics or anything else – e.g. anarcho-communists, anarcho-syndicalists, anarcho-collectivists and other left libertarians.

…no one is questioning or debating the views of anyone else.

…the thread has made it to 75 posts with no hut feelings, flaming, D/H'ings or nukings.

Look again through the posts and you will see a bunch of snips of what were obviously objectionable statements about other people's views. Perhaps some people aren't posting because they feel the whole thread breaks the politics rule but sanctions seem to be applied arbitrarily – one post will result in a DH but a similar one on another thread from someone else will just get snipped.

We don't know how many complaints have been raised about this thread – perhaps Bill can please enlighten us?

Anarcho-Capitalist/Voluntaryist. The extreme end of Libertarianism.

There are plenty on the left who do not agree with government involvement in economics or anything else – e.g. anarcho-communists, anarcho-syndicalists, anarcho-collectivists and other left libertarians.

I disagree here.

Moderate – Good point on the definition but I'd argue that systems that replace government with mutualism/syndicalism or similar are still, in essence forming governments, just voluntary local ones.

Since many of such beliefs believe in non-market economics in general, I don't think there's too much doubt about whether they are "left".

Everyone – be nice. Taking stabs at why "the other side" is dumb is not cool.

A-

What I find interesting about this thread is that you can almost always guess the affilication by the type of username they post under. Quiet possibly the age bracket too, but there is no way to track that.

Mitch Allen

one post will result in a DH but a similar one on another thread from someone else will just get snipped

Is there any correlation with letter choice and result?

Mallen – Age bracket makes sense. At least in the US, you can track voter affiliation fairly reliably by age (it's not just young liberal, old conservative either, it actually switches back and forth by bracket)

Doing it by user name would be really interesting but unfortunately, it'd only be a true test without prior knowledge of the poster.

E. Unabashed left-winger here.

Weasel:
I just noted that conservative old bastards like me seem (emphasia of seem) to use their names or portions thereof in their username. About as unscientific as you can get.

I would be interested to see what people think my leanings would be based on my user name.

Or the OFM's for that matter.

You may THINK you know but don't try to predict.

Winston would be a Spanish Anarchist of course ;)

A

but I do hold a few views that would be considered left wing.

We don't know how many complaints have been raised about this thread – perhaps Bill can please enlighten us?

I didn't count. Well over a dozen.

An interesting poll. So far we are on page two and everyone has been civil.

If people could behave, (which I doubt) it would be interesting to cross reference what people defined themselves as in the one-letter chart and a list of positions and topics and asking them to say yea or nay. I suspect you would find many people are not so doctrinaire as people assume. For example, a person MIGHT classify himself as an "A" but be very pro-choice.

But that would lead to verbalization, the snarks would fly, and all positive impact would be ended.

Moderate – Good point on the definition but I'd argue that systems that replace government with mutualism/syndicalism or similar are still, in essence forming governments, just voluntary local ones.

True but I think most people would accept that "government" is generally used as shorthand for central state government at the top of a hierarchy. If not then probably any system you care to mention has some element of "government" to it – even voluntary right-libertarian/anarcho-capitalism.
(note: we're still just discussing the general framing of definitions and no criticism of anything is implied here).

I'm not sure why a very civil discussion would be deleted, especially compared with the rabid ankle-biting that passes for normal discussion on the Ultramoderns board.

I'm a social democrat. Right now I'm sitting in Georgia, so that translates to 'Communist'.

Moderate –
Agree with you. In hindsight, the choice of the word "government" has a lot of connotations but it's a useful shorthand for the purpose.

Otto – THat would be more interesting but likely, as you say, to end in tears and fire.

For example, a person MIGHT classify himself

… then again, he MIGHT not. The issues on the various charts are too large for me to have a single, easily voicable in a multiple choice format opinion, let alone the classifications.

… was there N/A in the OP?

Dear Weasel

Yes. Sad tis.

In my gaming group, a basement group, there are about 14 players, of course only about 8 of them show up for any one game- work, family, sloth, illness chip away at the group. Nevertheless in the group I have 2 wildly liberal guys, 2 absolute right wingers like me, and the rest sprinkled pretty much in between. Whenever some of the right wingers trash Obama or some other liberal icon or program, one of them puts his head down in disgust but he doesn't really join in or oppose.

BUT- I serve dinner after the game, a regular sit down dinner that lasts several hours and several bottles of wine, and the conversation ranges all over and what is fascinating is the guy who does the slow burn above has a large number of right wing and very right wing positions, and some of the other right wingers have VERY left leaning positions now and then. You realize that simply labeling one
's self as A or E does not make a cookie-cutter person.
A person when he says he's this or that signifies a general predisposition to see the world in a certain way, but that does not mean that he will adhere to ALL of what one considers the nominal features of that predisposition. I see that all of the guys are a compendium of beliefs and some of them are incongruous at the least and incompatable logically with each other, but… there it is.

And… we all game together and have a great time, and love each other dearly and love to game together.

Human beings are not the place to look for logical consistency.
Otto