"Lost perspective?" Topic

It's about the toy soldiers, man. The toy soldiers. Has the site lost perspective of the main purpose. To give info and tips and share the in the hobby of war gamming.

I'm not going to say I haven't gotten caught up myself in some of the silly threads and topics that seem to plague "TMP" as of late. But, it seems with so many post about "sock puppets", weird Asian chicks dressed like cats, transgender issues, "Frothers", allegations, perceived or actual of marketing misconduct and of course Tango (hate him or love him). Has "TMP" lost its direction?

How can a site like "Lead Adventure" get by without the drama and this site can't?

Has "TMP" lost its direction?

Lost it years ago, mate! But still fun and has plenty of good stuff about toy soldiers for all that.

Too much debate on real world issues, the hobby's the thing. I like the pics of new vehicles, etc. just don't care for a political debate with every contemporary miniature/modeling posting. The F35 debate is getting old. The News is so bad, I come here to escape and it's the News again.

I'm as guilty as everyone else at this but I agree we need a better perspective(problem is we all have different glasses).

The beauty of this place is you can turn off certain boards. I turned off Ultra Modern and don´t miss it at all. If all you want is toy soldiers, then turn off TMP Talk. Ignorance is indeed bliss!

+1 to Taxas Jack.

I skip the off topic posts ingnore some of the comments and only focus on what I need to.

Stepman;
Some of us enjoy the site for what it is, others feel a need for a different slant.

I'm still upset over KatieL being locked out, but I continue to return here because of various folks from yourself to John the OFM to Texas Jack to Sundance because at the end of the day, we all just play with toy soldiers.

Eric

Yeah – Texas Jack has the right of it : TMP is a sprawling set of fora, if some bits are annoying or uninteresting then turn them off and focus on what you are really interested in.

Sort of like making it "Your TMP".

Agreed.

I seemed to have missed the weird asian chicks dressed as cats. Link please?

All the other stuff *can* be used for gaming, at least as references. Particularly the F-35 stuff. So I believe it should all be here. Transgender stuff may not be directly gaming-related, but it IS community related. Maybe more appropriate for the Lounge boards? But still, that particular issue is near and dear to my heart for family reaons, and if discussiond thereof were banned, I would be quite unhappy.

Who even knows any more?

There's never been any clear vision of what things should look like.

Is politics okay? No, because you get DH'ed for making fun of CNN or Fox. Yes, because if you post that we should be bombing more in some country, that's cool.

Is it family friendly? Yes, because no cussing is allowed. No, because you can post videos of people being killed horribly.

Is it just about gaming? Yes? No? You tell me.

Is it an unrestricted free dialogue? Yes? No? Depends on the topic.

I think most people would be fine if the site settled on a direction and just stuck with that.
When it's inconsistent and arbitrary, people get upset because they have no idea what to expect anymore.

There are lots of topics on my front page about wargaming. Just click on those, ignore the others and make those your focus. Others have it right, you can make these side things as big or little of a deal as you want.

I'll add in that I've never seen a site or forum improve by dedicating effort to internet drama. It always makes the atmosphere worse.

There's a reason a lot of forums will ban certain topics, like when the gamergate nonsense hit.

"the ol' turn off the board trick". seems to be a common answer and thought. Kinda like burying your head in the sand. If I hide my head then the monsters won't see me…

The topics are still there, and why should I have to hide any topic or forum thread. Sometimes a bit of good information may come across "TMP Talk" or any other board.

But then again you're all smarter then me, what do I know…

Stepman I don´t think anyone´s I.Q. is in play here, but I do know if you find interest in TMP Talk from time to time, then you will have to accept the static that comes with it. For me, I have no interest at all in Ultra Modern, and not even morbid curiosity would make me visit there. YMMV I suppose.

Just read what you want from it?

I seemed to have missed the weird asian chicks dressed as cats. Link please?

I suppose "weird" is in the eye of the beholder, but the Asian chicks dressed as cats can be found here:

Meow

There is no plague on TMP, If there is a post you don't think your going to like to read don't bloody open, plain and simple.

"Hey, everybody! I don't like the way things are but I refuse to take the most reasonable, logical steps to solve the problem!"

See here for real world example of what happens then… link

8)=

Is TMP perfect? Hardly but what it does well, it does well. Lots of traffic,hobby news,a plethora of interesting posts & experts & personalities all on the hobby I love. I go to TMP in place of buying wargame mags, or joining a club. We don't have conventions or shows here. I can find out stuff, have a laugh & talk about history & figures.

Ask yourself this: apart from anything else, what alternatives are there for TMP?

LAF is well respected etc but for some reason it just doesn't click the right buttons for me.

Frothers? Apart from the extremely disagreeable Frothpotters it doesn't generate enough traffic to keep my attention.

The AB site (whatever it's called?). Even less traffic. I look in there about once a month to read 10 minutes of stuff.

Etc.

TMP, warts & all, is the premier wargaming site for me.

I don't think it's anything about being smarter – I usually buy a daily newspaper, I have no interest in sports, I don't read the spots pages.

It's just focusing on what's of interest to you – I like the arts pages, some people want pages of soccer. Just different.

Life is everywhere, even here. Yes, we're gamers but we are also people with all the baggage that entails.

The irony though is that threads like this to complain about the "off-topic" issues is an off-topic thread that takes us away from talking about gaming

So you have two options. Take your toys and go home and find another miniatures related board or deal with the fact that gamers and TMP are just plain weird and move on. You can participate in the drama as is your want.

I personally like the ultramodern board, but I'll probably block TMP talk and ignore the transgender stuff as being irrelevant to what I come to TMP for.

I get useful info and feedback from fellow gamers here along with excellent gaming news and contact with industry folks here. That more than outweighs the drama and weird stuff IMO, for now anyway.

So make your choice and move on. 'Nuff said.

The vast majority of posts are wargame related.

I don't see it as an issue.

DM

I think the key is to learn to be tolerant of what others post. Not everyone is from your same culture, your life experience, your belief system, your educational level, and your politics.

But, it seems with so many post about "sock puppets"…

Well, that was certainly hobby related, and it happened (mostly) here on TMP.

…weird Asian chicks dressed like cats…

It would be OK if they were Western chicks? I have a hard time understanding the problem here…

…transgender issues…

Nobody at TMP wanted to make an issue of that.

…and of course Tango (hate him or love him)

And Tango is certainly part of TMP. You don't have to love him, but is he really worth hating?

Hey Bill. I don't think that "hate" is the right term for how others feel towards him. I have never seen anyone say that they "hate" him. Some here like to imply that alot when they use it towards others in regards to him. It makes those that are annoyed seem more wrong in what in when don't agree with the views of others.I think that most if not all of those who don't like him here are just highly annoyed by him and his posting style. Now it's true that TMP has its problems,and some seem happy to point that out, but I think most are outweighed by the amount of information that is posted here.Far more then one person out of the host of others who post.Pick what you want to read and ignore what you don't.

One thing I find sad yet amusing is the vast number of ex-TMPers who were bounced or left in high dudgeon who seemingly spend most of their waking day here, avidly reading.

From one such moron, I got a PM on another forum chiding me for posting my previous post on this thread. I am an "extremist" evidently.

Says something about the mental state of such people (Hi, WCL)

I've never commented on Tango before (I really have no opinion on he and his online behaviour), but I'll just make a personal observation that every social group needs its eccentrics, and it's difficult to perform that social role when you're surrounded by eccentrics without 'out-eccentricing' the other eccentrics.

The TMP experience, you get out of it what you put into it.

…flooding a forum with posts is a recognized netiquette faux pas everywhere else except here.

We've voted on it before, but you can always bring it up for another try…

It would be OK if they were Western chicks?

I'm not sure the posting was appropriate at all… and what made it worse was that the editor put up the first photo…

the vast number of ex-TMPers who were bounced or left in high dudgeon who seemingly spend most of their waking day here, avidly reading

Or indeed certain people here frequenting other forums and commenting here on what they find. What happens in Vegas…

If there is a post you don't think your going to like to read don't bloody open, plain and simple.

THere are an awful lot I just skim over looking for the relevant ones to comment on. Actually Chas tells me off for not commenting enough to push some of our other ranges, WW1, ACW, ECW, etc, etc…

Lost Direction? Isn't that another of those boy bands?

I'm not sure the posting was appropriate at all… and what made it worse was that the editor put up the first photo…

+1 Geoff

Bill can ya not see it?

John T

GeoffQRF,

"Or indeed certain people here frequenting other forums and commenting here on what they find. What happens in Vegas…"

I agree, however 'this' is a thing called the internet, not Vegas, so I have to disagree.

One involves traveling, the other just typing at a keyboard.

Do you understand the difference?

Yes, neither should be taken from their point of origin, and 'this' is a wargames forum not 'the internet' (Internet = compare 'Vegas' to 'the world')

Can you see the similarity in disaster that both bring?

Dear Stepman 3

Yes that's true. But only about a quarter of the people here talk about the hobby or put out ideas or new projects, or do constructive work. The rest are here to tear them down and criticize them, and make snarky criticisms of others.

I get what you all are saying, it's not above me…but the attitude seems to be "If you don't like it, Don't look at it". How many people have been driven away due that very attitude?

Sure this is Bills "house", but if visitors and members are driven away because of the antics on the boards, well then not much of a "house" to visit, is it?

Bill can ya not see it?

Maybe I'm just too innocent? It's a young lady in a cat costume. What is wrong with that?

Right, girls dressed in provocative clothing in poses that suggest anything but innocence…it's not because the girls think it's cute…it's some skeezy old dude behind a camera selling sex…

I'm not a prude and enjoy sexual images as much as the next guy, I even like the "NSFW" thread, as it pertains to figure anatomy and cool wargaming figures. But it really didn't add anything to the hobby or topic at hand…

Maybe I'm just too innocent?

Ha.

Ha. Ha.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Maybe I'm just too innocent?

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Right, girls dressed in provocative clothing in poses that suggest anything but innocence…it's not because the girls think it's cute…it's some skeezy old dude behind a camera selling sex…

Provocative???
Suggestive poses???

It's a silly cat suit. It's cute.

Your members are telling you it's not "cute", and it's not "silly".

I seriously doubt you're "having a hard time understanding the problem here".

Do what you want, but don't feign innocence and ignorance.

Well, despite the fact that many here do not, this member understands 'cute' and 'Cosplay' and finds nothing offensive or salacious about the photo being discussed.

I worry more about people who find that sort of picture in some way disturbing.

I agree with Bill.

It has nothing to do with wargaming and encourages the very image this hobby should be trying hard to avoid.

You need it blatant? It's a young lady in a sexually-orientated provocative suit (aka sex kitten) being looked at by middle aged men. It is HIGHLY inappropriate for this site.

It is the sort of thing that I would expect from certain other forums, but not this one. You want to drag this site down to that level, you could soon find yourself with no sponsors. There is a reason why people are here and not there, and if you want to continue to push the two closer together then here is no longer the place to be, for the same reason I don't go there.

Sorry Geoff, I agree with a lot of what you say here, but not this time.

Dressing up is not pervy and neither is admiring someone who does. If that's the perception, then it's the viewer who has the problem, not the person dressing up or the person who photographs them.. Admittedly I come from a re-enactment background where various degrees of dress or undress are barely commented on but your suggestion that such photos are not acceptable risks branding the wearer as somehow at fault.

My Dad used to say he would ‘Never Trust Anyone Who Didn't Smoke, Drink Or Look At Pretty Girls ". Times change I know, but much of that is still true.

If Bill says – No non-wargaming photos – I'll support it, but until he does, as far as I'm concerned any image that helps lighten the discussion is welcome.

By the way, any talk of Cosplay being restricted to ‘yoofs' is mistaken. I work with someone whos' wife still indulges in Cosplay – and she is in her early 50's.

Guthroth

…Dressing up is not pervy. Agreed. I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise

…neither is admiring someone who does. . Agreed. See previous answer.

But…

The internet is filled to the very brim with images that fulfill those requirements for young ladies not wearing much. And good luck all round.

But why here?: The Miniatures Page. Sure she's small and cute but she's life sized, so….

And why is Bill setting the tone? And Bill – a direct question: why are you pretending that you don't understand what you are doing? As I said earlier on, seriously? A blind man could see it with a stick (to quote Leonard H McCoy)

Let me draw you all a rather crude analogy:

I fart.

You fart.

Bill farts.

We all fart. I try – along with most non-drunks – not to do it in inappropriate places or polite company.

Time and place, and all that.

I have no problems with nudity. Not one bit. I have no issues with cute outfits worn by people (in my case specifically females but each to their own) providing they do so of their own free will. No issues whatsoever.

But I don't particularly want to see them on page three of a newspaper I buy* and I'm not so keen on them on a website on miniature figures and wargaming simply because I don't really understand their relevance. And because how it makes 50% of the population look at the men in the room and roll their eyes. I figure, what with wargaming and farting, we already have enough of a tough time persuading most women that we're not thoughtless, juveniles, why add to our woes?

So, to make it clear, I don't "object", per se to cute cat girls. I don't find it "offensive" in the slightest and I'm not suggesting Bill is a perv or anyone else who found the young lady attractive is one either.

I'm just saying I might well consider waiting until I left the room before I farted. It just seems the best course of action, all things considered.

Bill, just because you can do something, does it necessarily follow that you should do it? I know it's 'your train set' but all you are doing is making a rod for your own back.

There you go: trains, rods, farting…. it's metaphor-paloosa!

John "excuse me while I leave the room" Treadaway

* British reference their to the Sun newspaper which, for decades, has a semi nude woman plastered across page three of every edition

I don´t think I would have posted such a picture, but it was in a thread about herding cats, and it was on TMP Talk, so therefore it doesn´t have to be related to miniatures.

I did enjoy Catwoman though, more to my generation.

Dear John Treadway

Very ungracious of you to rub it in. We in America know all about "page three girls" and are highly jealous. The news today in American Papers is so dreary and distasteful- and lying- nothing but garbage, and while the page three girl is likewise garbage, at least it's momentarily diverting.

Like any spice a little goes a long way.

John has hit it on the nail – no problem with the image, per se. Just TMP should not be the place.

I have no problem with page 3 girls, but that may be one of the reasons I don't buy that particular paper. A thought perhaps if you wish continue down this route.

The next thing is we may all be labelled filth for association with this topic?

Get your head in order, get your house in order, and stop playing with controversial topics that continue to draw TMP into disrepute. You want a family friendly wargames website, then you are in the position to make it so. Or not.

Like sands through the hour glass….

John,
I agree more then 100% with you.

Get your head in order…

My head is just fine. The ones who look at that picture and see something wrong are the ones who need to have a head-check…