"Please stop trying to herd cats. " Topic

Now this one is serious…

Love the cats! Both kinds!

Quit being a punter.

I have to agree with janner about the Cyrus post and I object in the strongest possible terms to him addressing it to me…!

I have issued a complaint to Bill and I hope he'l agree with me that it was a highly inappropriate post to a "family friendly" site.

Doug

Doug,

It was probably in response to your "No pics of cat woman – disappointing…" post.

And, while I agree it seems inappropriate, Bill the Editor started it.

Tim

Have a word with yourself, Cyrus, she looks about twelve years old!

She wouldn't see 20 again if I lent her a telescope, the older you are the younger the 20 somethings (m&f) look, of course it doesn't help if you don't get out and mix, makes it even harder for OFM's to gauge.

For those getting their tights in a twist, what is inappropriate about someone dressed in dance/rave party clothing. Really popular street fashion in a lot of Asian countries.

Of course I'm completely ignoring the fact that this is an arbitrarily moderated, free speech, family orientated, christian values, some what wargames forum so…

Actually now I'm confused

"Irony is intentional, which I doubt this is.
Hypocrisy is the correct word here."

I think you are truly oblivious. In this case Winston has won, and won big. Well done, Winnie!! 8)=

If I understand you correctly you are saying "Winston" deliberately wrote a provocative post in order to create a "hubbub" (i.e. flamewar).

If so does that not make him a ?

And if so should he not be in the DH?

"Herr Dingkatz" would be an excellent moniker for an inept Gestapo mook.

She wouldn't see 20 again if I lent her a telescope, the older you are the younger the 20 somethings (m&f) look, of course it doesn't help if you don't get out and mix, makes it even harder for OFM's to gauge.

I chose twelve because that's the age of my eldest daughter and, aside from not having seen her in a cat costume, she looks to be at a similar state of physical development. However, if truly outraged, I would have just pressed the report button rather than post something teasing.

As an aside, last time I looked, I wasn't a Franciscan monk, but maybe OFM means someone else on the Left Bank

Wow! I post a picture of a model, NOT a teenage model, hired for a cosplay event and all hell breaks loose. She is not provocatively dressed, she'd pass any family friendly forum. Halle Berry's Catwoman costume is more racy. Cosplay is a younger man and woman's game. There aren't going to be a lot of 40, 50 or 60 year old cosplayers! Some of you need to get out more and mix with younger people.

Catwoman, the later years

"If I understand you correctly you are saying "Winston" deliberately wrote a provocative post in order to create a "hubbub" (i.e. flamewar)."

You don't. Knowing John (or Winston in this case) it was most certainly an intentionally ironic comment, to which most have replied in a humorous fashion, thereby creating a fun thread. How you can even remotely view this as a flame war is beyond me.

Wow! I post a picture of a model, NOT a teenage model, hired for a cosplay event and all hell breaks loose. She is not provocatively dressed, she'd pass any family friendly forum. Halle Berry's Catwoman costume is more racy. Cosplay is a younger man and woman's game. There aren't going to be a lot of 40, 50 or 60 year old cosplayers! Some of you need to get out more and mix with younger people.

I'm outraged at your outrage at my … err … well, teasing

Anyway, I think that I've managed to tidy up those slightly loose bits of hell that were working their way free. A dab of superglue seems to have done the trick…

@janner,
See above for evidence of 60-70 olds engaging in cosplay.

See above for evidence of 60-70 olds engaging in cosplay.

Why do you think I need to see evidence of 60-70 year-olds engaging in cosplay or not, Cyrus?

Do I need to break out the superglue again?

Superglue might not be enough, janner!

No worries, I have some 'No More Nails' knocking around here somewhere…

I hope I'm still into cosplay when I'm 70

I HATE CATS!

Have a word with yourself, Cyrus, she looks about twelve years old!

Many Asian women look "young" to Western eyes – for reasons of genetics and diet!

And not just Asian women… there was a recent news case about Florida police tracking down a young lady in a viral Spring Break video because she looked underage – and she wasn't…

And Natalie Portman played the 14-year-old Princess Amidala… she was 19 when the movie came out.

That's just creepy Bill.

Is cosplay wrong now? I confused

+1 Zardoz

Look up "projection", and then re-read the OP.

Martin

Along with the word , I think the OFM, and all his tiresome alias, should be banned from using the word 'amuse' 'amusing' in fact, all permiations thereof. He thinks it's makes him sound aloof, and superior, really?
I just…….. oh, I can't be bothered …………… ………carry on……..

If I have succeeded in annoying just you, then I (we) have succeeded in amusing ourselves.

And if we were not amused, what would be the point if coming here at all?

That's just creepy Bill.

Nothing creepy about it at all. Asians in general just look younger to Western eyes, due to genetics and the fact that they are not as fat!

These answers ARE creepy

These answers ARE creepy

Maybe you are being too judgmental of others.

Nope, cannot see what is wrong with those photos. They do not look underage to me, and even if they were, they are dressed up for fun, so again nothing to alert the paedo police for. Too sensitive perhaps?

These answers ARE creepy

Maybe you are being too judgmental of others.

Bill, just wondering: if everyone were to say "Bill you – and your judgement – is wrong in this" (or words to that effect) would you actually think yourself wrong?

Now – before you say it (before anyone else says it) – I accept that not everyone has said that.

But just supposing they did.

Or a maybe just a majority of them did.

Or even a significant minority of them…

Have you ever stopped to consider – just for one second – that on this issue, like so many others that have been mentioned recently (maybe your reaction to/obsession with what people on other web forums are doing and saying, for example) that sometimes – just sometimes – maybe you're not always (I'm struggling to type the words)…

RIGHT

Bill I'm not one of your detractors, far from it. I have not been one of those who suggested that your chasing down of people with sock puppet accounts is the wrong approach. I'm not saying that your ire with the unpleasantness of some folks on the forums – with all of their rude words and harsh language aimed at TMP (and elsewhere) – is misplaced.

Not me, sir.

But, unlike some, I do not have any true 'faith' (and I'm choosing my words carefully here) in anything or anyone's judgement: not gods, mere mortals, politicians, the legal system or even the editors of internet forums.

None of them.

So….

Have you ever stopped to even consider, for one minute, that posting an image like that cat/girl one – that patently (again, for want of a better term) disturbs what is obviously a sizable proportion of your membership was really the best thing to do.

I'm just asking if you thought of that before you posted it…

John T

Bill, just wondering: if everyone were to say "Bill you – and your judgement – is wrong in this" (or words to that effect) would you actually think yourself wrong?

If I thought I was right, why would I change my mind? Peer pressure?

Have you ever stopped to even consider, for one minute, that posting an image like that cat/girl one – that patently (again, for want of a better term) disturbs what is obviously a sizable proportion of your membership was really the best thing to do.

I'm just asking if you thought of that before you posted it…

No, because it never occurred to me that someone could possibly object to such a silly picture.

I'm starting to doubt my own sanity and personal moral compass reading this particular thread.

Is it just me? Oh, and John…and Geoff…

If I thought I was right, why would I change my mind? Peer pressure?

Or 'democracy' as it's sometimes called…

Absolutely Bill: if you honestly believe something – say that the world is flat – and lots of people think its round then why bow to 'peer pressure'?

Stick to your guns, I say.

But this isn't something about facts (like flat versus round earths) so my analogy is a fairly poor one I accept.

Nope: you're absolutely right Bill. Your judgement could never, ever be in error. Those of us who have in any way expressed any concern over this issue should have no worries and need not concern themselves any further with this matter.

Gosh… Time for me to be… somewhere else.

John T

Democracy? Highly over-rated and wholly inappropriate to this place, I would suggest.

But I've never met anyone who was so confident in his own actions that he cannot accept the remote possibility of learning something from the contrary opinions of others which might, just might, occasionally persuade him that his actions were misguided or maybe less than perfect, and could with hindsight have been handled better.

Interesting

So how did a throw away thread that I started simply to remind long winded OPs that it was useless to try to keep a thread on track degenerate to this?
As a veteran hijacker, it took even me by surprise. TMP community, I am proud of you.

To get back on the topic that this has become, I found the cat girls….anime. Neither cute not sexy or creepy, just anime.
To clarify, I can't stand the whole "big eyes small mouth" look but that's just me.
So I object to my rant being turned into anime. So there.

Funny, isn't it. "Oops, sorry guys that was probably a bit inappropriate" would have defused 3 of the longest running and more contraversial threads (recently).

And (God forbid) left everyone talking about miniature wargames.

But it wasn't inappropriate in the least, so why should he say it to ameliorate a few guys who are so terribly bothered by it? Move on and ignore it if it is such a pernicious picture.

@ Nazrat (and anyone else still reading)

But it wasn't inappropriate in the least

In your opinion

Move on and ignore it if it is such a pernicious picture

Then what's the point of a forum where we can discuss things? It's not about the picture itself: that really wasn't the point but I don't want to have to explain it again so – by all means – read back through the posts.

And – if you think it's just "a few guys" – then I really don't know what to say.

However, I'm done on this.

(cue for someone to get that picture of lego stormtroopers hitting a horse but… I really can't be bothered…)

John T

However, I'm done on this.

If I had a nickel…

Move on and ignore it if it is such a pernicious picture.

What a strange attitude Jerry has. If someone finds something that they consider harmful or damaging we should just ignore it and move on? Don't flag it up, don't draw the attention of authority (in this case Bill) to it. No, just put your head down and walk on by. Someone somewhere will not find it objectionable and so we mustn't annoy them by speaking up.

Perhaps it's because it's somewhat prevalent in Britain at the moment that at least two of the objectors are British. We are currently witnessing the after effects of serial ‘ignoring it and moving on' in our society. Police, Social Services and other ‘authorities' ignored allegation after allegation of harmful and damaging activities, allowing the offenders to continue their conduct unchallenged. The number of enquiries continues to grow as more and more victims of ‘ignoring it and moving on' come forward. Thankfully the response of ‘authority' now is the very reverse of Jerry's attitude. And rightfully so.

Now I am in no way equating the cat costume photos here with the serial child abuse and sexual offending etc. that has been uncovered in the U.K. But the attitude of ‘ignore it and move on' needs to be challenged whenever it rears its ugly head. That way of thinking has caused damage to hundreds of people.

I am also not saying that if there is an objector then they must be right. There's a whole world of internet warriors out there just waiting to be outraged. But if ‘the man on the Clapham omnibus' highlights an issue then we at least owe them the courtesy of examining their concerns. "I don't think there is a problem and therefore you shouldn't either" is not the attitude that should prevail on a ‘family-friendly' website, especially one that is viewable from anywhere and by any culture in the world.

link

Maybe so in the UK, Deephorse, but Cosplay is a huge thing in the USA and Japan, something done by teenagers, adults and old folks. Dorks with extra pocket money for going to cons and making costumes. It's wargaming for people who would rather dress like toy soldiers (historical or fantasy) instead of people who push toys around on a table. And there is certainly overlap between the two.

I am uk based and cannot link cosplay pics to child abuse seriously guys some of you seem to b finding offence where there is none

I'm going to be radical here.
Thoughts in no particular order of importance.

A:
1: If someone felt it was inappropriate, there's probably nothing that can be done to convince them otherwise.

2: If someone didn't feel it was inappropriate,there's probably nothing that can be done to convince them otherwise.

Telling someone that their feelings are wrong has pretty much never achieved anything, ever, especially online.

"Oh no, some dude in Belgium thinks I'm an idiot, let me change my mind".

B:
That being said, anything submitted to the site has the function of helping set the tone for what goes on.

By virtue of Bill's ownership, things he posts are taken as a barometer of what is acceptable content.

If some people view the image as sexual in nature, then that'll be seen as an approval of posting generally sexual content, whether or not that was the intent.

C
Context matters.
Posting pictures of a cute girl (or boy, I ain't that picky) in revealing clothes as part of a discussion about cosplay, anime etc. has one meaning in context.

Posting the same image elsewhere has a different context.
Considering the general "good old boy" atmosphere of this site, the conclusion that a picture of a sexy girl in skimpy clothes was posted to a message board full of old men was not appropriate, is not that far-fetched, WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS THE INTENT.

D
Someone interpreting a situation differently than you is not automatically wrong.
We see this on the news all the time. Someone says something that someone else takes offence to, and they didn't intend to.

That doesn't mean that their offence is imagined or manufactured, just like your view that it was not intended is not automatically suspect.

Sometimes both people are right, because we all contextualize things in the light of our own experiences and expectations.

For reals.

If some people view the image as sexual in nature, then that'll be seen as an approval of posting generally sexual content, whether or not that was the intent.

Only if the content actually is sexual in nature.
For example:

Is sexual for some people.

Posting the same image elsewhere has a different context.

The context in this case being a thread about "herding cats".

That's still context though.

If I take a gorgeous, naked person and put them in the middle of a painting class as a model, is it sexual? No, not really if you are a westerner from a liberal democracy where this exists.

But your great grand parents might think it was wildly inappropriate.

If I take the same person and put them in my basement on a dog leash, is it sexual? I think we'd both agree it probably is and your grand dad would probably pass out.

For another example, witness some Americans losing their minds about public breast feeding for another example that is either completely natural or wildly inappropriate, depending on perspective.

Without context, a thing just is. It has no values because our values are culturally and personally defined.
If we didn't have cultural definitions of what is "okay" and "inappropriate", then this discussion wouldn't exist at all.