"In Defense of... Shock in Cavalry Charges" Topic

Is there any basis for awarding benefits to charging cavalry in melee or is it unrealistic, in that cavalry will not charge in to run down infantry.

Toss out contemporary accounts and you can dismiss "shock" cavalry. My favorite is Anna Comnena, who was very impressed with the greater power of the "Franks" cavalry charges. They inspired her to metaphorical exaggeration: "The Franks charge could make a hole through the walls of Babylon!" It was obviously more dramatic an effect than what the Byzantine cavalry achieved. Yet the Byzantine cavalry contained some of the most heavily armored troops in the world. It was a difference in mindset. The largely unarmored Ostrogoths achieved the same effect on the plains of Adrianople when they destroyed a large Roman army and slew an emperor on the battlefield. Armor, of course, helps the effectiveness. But first above all is the mindset of the troops. "Franks" do it better. :)

Later periods are different. Cavalry in the "Age of the Gunne" thin out until they are hardly two, not densely packed, ranks deep in most cases. This is entirely different from the middle ages where cavalry often charged many ranks deep and "knee to knee" so that "if you tossed an apple into their midst it would not hit the ground before striking man or horse." (that's an Arabic source from the crusades, I think Beha al'Din (sp)) The more densely packed and the more ranks, the more "shock" is delivered, IF the charge "gets home", that is….

Really the key question is whether the infantry on the receiving end hang tough and stay in formation or lose their nerve and allow their formation to break up, or were disordered to begin with. Yes, horses won't jump into a formed body of pikes, but throw a few gaps in that formation and it can quickly turn into a different story….

-Will

A lot of the "shock" is psychological. Well disiplined and trained troops have an edge against cav.

That's pretty shocking.

Like wminsing says, if the infantry stand tough, there is a good chance the cavalry will be stopped.

What time frame and what region of the world are we talking about? Shock Cavalry is not the same universally nor is the nature of warfare. I am a 13th century – High Medieval gamer but others are gaming different eras. During the Great War there were generals hoping for a great cavalry push to break the stalemate. Without a historical context such a discussion is moot.

Yep, what period of history are we discussing? ACW, ECW, Napoleonics, teutonics, crusader, Mongol, etc.

The period of horses.

What the rider wants and what the horses do is two different things.

Yes, but being related to horse-riding people, my understanding is that unless you're a totally incompetent rider on a badly trained horse, what the horse wants doesn't matter 90% of the time. So no, the horse won't kill itself, but it WILL take itself and the person riding it into places it would rather not be. Otherwise cavalry would just run away from every battle, since what sensible horse wants to be there to begin with?

But, you are dodging the question since the defenses available DO make a massive difference in how effective 'shock' cavalry can be. It's an equation with two sides, and the tools the cavalry have versus the tools the infantry have are the variables.

-Will

Or if you're just asking 'can you EVER justify a shock bonus for cavalry' then the answer is absolutely yes.

-Will

My impression is that that most charges, cavalry or otherwise, ends with one side suddenly remembering they forgot to check their mail and going to do so, before actual contact is made.

@weasel – does this mean one or the other side forgot to properly secure their clasps on their chainmail? I only ask because mail, in the modern sense is, well, modern.

Cavalry running down infantry? Happens. As often as on the gaming table? Exceptionally unlikely.