"British 3-pdrs in American army" Topic

As we know, patriots used French made 4-pdrs as their ligh artillery.
And how about Britsh made "Butterflies" and "Grasshoppers" ?
These were quite new designs, so I have doubts that Patriot Army use them often.
What was the source of these guns for Patriot Army and do we know examples of their use in battle (apart from Eutaw) ?

The source of these guns was undoubtedly capture.
I have written here often on the path if various guns.
A prime example is the guns captured by the British at Quebec in 1759.
Some were captured at Ticonderoga, some went to Saratoga to be surrendered.
Some of these in the service of the Continental army were later captured by the British on battle, to be recaptured by etcetera ….

Guns can't be tried for treason, no more than horses, wagons or muskets.

So , any British guns on the American army were probably captured.

General Knox gained fame for bringing cannon of all calibers from Ticonderoga to the patriot army near Boston.
Captured British cannon was used by Patriots in the Revolution and Americans later.

Cannon captured at Saratoga was used by the Georgia State troops during the 1812-14 First Creek War. It and another gun were mounted on four wheel naval trucks during the war. (Carried into battle on a wagon and unloaded each night.)

Most Patriot contracts were to produce firearms during the war. I am not sure about casting cannon. i will check.

I know about gen. Knox' venture but I doubt that such modern guns were stored in Ticonderoga.

There were a number of iron foundries in the western half of some of the northern and middle Colonies. I suspect initially set up to serve the local gunsmiths. A lot of captured and imported guns were re-bored at the behest of Knox, to equip the sections supporting each infantry brigade (battalion guns in all but name, really).

A number of 3-pdr French tubes from the Quebec arsenal were mounted on British carriages and used (mostly by the Hesse Hanau gunners) in the Saratoga campaign. The only British regulars likely to use 3-pdrs were light troops – principally the Light Battalions of Howe's/Clinton's and Cornwallis's forces, but also cavalry, jaeger and legionary corps (eg Simcoe's QRs). As such there was a higher possibility of capture for guns attached to these units than for the 6-pdrs of the grenadier battalions and the "brigade guns" of line infantry formations, so the odd loss is not inconceivable, but remember that British defeats were actually quite rare.

This booklet is invaluable in tracing the development and deployment of British 3-pdrs and hence their likely capture and use by the enemy:-

link

There were a number of pre-war militia artillery companies which were probably equipped with 3-pdrs, especially since their raison d'etre was to provide support to frontier excursions. They were also cheap.

Trenton, Saratoga, King's Mountain, Hannah's Cowpens, Yorktown…did I miss out anything important

There were some hasty withdrawals to camp during the 'Forage War'in early 1777 but I don't recall any guns being lost.

Did the British 'Flank' battalions operate routinely with battalion guns attached? Would not the limited fire power be out weighed by the restriction on mobility? I am sure they would have guns attached when on piquet as at Germantown but that is a different matter. What happend to those guns when the forward wing of the 2nd LI were forced to withdraw? I don't think they were captured. There would have been more of a fuss made if they had been.

I believe it was the practice with some German light troops to have with a 1 or 1.5pdr amusette but it's not a subject about which I have read a great deal.

Ah, yes- there was also the attack on the British outpost at Stony Point, of course, which garnered half a dozen or so field pieces and assorted small howitzers and mortars.

Trenton wasn't a British defeat (although there were six Hessian 4-pdrs lost); as far as I know there were no guns at King's Mountain, and two 3-pdrs were lost at Cowpens. Stony Point, Saratoga and Yorktown obviously each cost a greater or lesser artillery park, being fortified camps; ditto Fort Ticonderoga. However, the majority of these were 6-, 12-, 18- and 24-pdrs; hardly any 3-pdrs were lost. I think Breymann's and von Barner's battalions each lost both of their supporting battalion guns – 3- and 4-pdrs – at Bennington; but these were supplied from the Quebec arsenal and unlikely to be of the Grasshopper/Butterfly type "mackie" was asking about.

Both the Grenadier and Light battalion(s) had guns attached to them at Monmouth Courthouse (6- and 3-pdrs respectively), and at actions such as Boundbrook; I'm trying to find my copy of McGuire's book on Paoli to check if the 2nd LI had guns with them (most likely not). One 3-pdr was almost lost at MCH as Erskine's command tried to negotiate a brook, but was recovered and brought away. I suspect the 3-pdrs were probably useful in putting a round or two through clapboard buildings, but otherwise used for canister only. The QRs had a 3-pdr and an amusette for most of their existence.

"Trenton wasn't a British defeat (although there were six Hessian 4-pdrs lost)" – a nice point!

No, no guns with the 2nd LI at Paoli Tavern. Grey wanted the attack to go in with 'Zeal and With Bayonets Alone'- (not a direct quote!).

All the British certainly denied that it was a British defeat.
The Hessian Court of Inquiry tried to deny it was a Hessisn defeat too. Obviously that would not fly so they blamed it on all the dead guys. If you survived, you were in the clear.

Pardonable cynicism aside, were the Hessian contract troops not fighting in the service of the British Crown, hence ipso facto part of British forces in America?

Supercillius Maximus dicitur:
"There were a number of iron foundries in the western half of some of the northern and middle Colonies. I suspect initially set up to serve the local gunsmiths. A lot of captured and imported guns were re-bored at the behest of Knox, to equip the sections supporting each infantry brigade (battalion guns in all but name, really)."

True, but the home-grown products were often wanting in quality; often the tubes were much heavier than comparable calibers from the British or French military stores.

Hopewell Furnace, near Reading/Pottstown, PA page 5/Introduction
PDF link

Cornwall Furnace, near Annville/Lebanon PA

Washingtonburg(Carlisle, PA) page 23
link

In answer to my own question re. guns posted with the British picket at Germantown, Stephen Gilbert in his study of the della Gatta painting of Germantown, quotes Major John Howard of the 4th Maryland who wrote-
"The enemy had by this time given way, and I pushed on through their encampment, their tents standing, and in the road, before we came opposite to Chew's House, took two six pounders, which I suppose were those that had been with the picket, but as the drag ropes had been cut and taken away, we could do nothing with them."

So, there were guns captured but not kept.