"Blucher, Napoleonic flavor??" Topic

I am trying to decide whether to buy Blucher or DBN. I have read all the AARs and reviews I can find and one thing that was mentioned keeps coming to mind.

Does Blucher have a Napoleonic flavor or is it just a good game with Napoleonic miniatures on the table? I understand that the level of the game has done away with the minutia of deploying skirmishers and with column, line, and square which in many ways to me are the essence of Napoleonic games. Without these does the game still feel like Napoleonics?

I think you have answered your own question. But here's my two cents.

At higher levels of command the notion of "period flavor" comes to mean less and less. Certainly pre-1850 if you abstract out formations battles will look very much alike. The decisions are about force allocation and an overall plan. You are assuming your lower level commanders are using the appropriate tactics to their mission/situation.

I think if you get the unit capabilities right, you could have one rules set for grand tactical battles that would cover everything from pre-history up to around 1850/1870.

But for many, it is the tactical formation decisions that define eras and so they won't give them up.

I'd say Blucher has more Napoleonic flavour than DBN, because of the unit traits.

All these high level games have less 'flavour' than games with battalions as units, because there are no formations, and battles at this level are attritional affairs, won by the general with the last fresh reserve.

Volley & Bayonet covers pretty much the whole period from 1700-1900 with one set of rules.

Command and Control is where Blucher shines IMO. You can't do everything you want, and if you over extend, you will pay for it later. Particularly Napoleonic? Maybe not, but it works for me.

If you want the idea of some differences in units, the relative strength of cavalry, the important of squares and the use of grand batteries is what you want you are all set.

If battalion level tactics are what you want it isn't the game for you

If you want a card game with miniatures then Blucher is fine

@Allen57

True, one does not deploy skirmishers in these rules, but skirmishing does take place, and those armies with historically better skirmishers (or just loads of them) are accounted for.

The rule allow multiple corps games to be played in 2-3 hours; We've finished games of 3 corps per army in less than three hours. However, "corps" does have a fluid meaning. Certainly, stating the number of maneuver elements is more accurate; 19-23 elements per army in the above case.

These games are with only one person having read all of the rules, two games going on at once, using the same rulebook (on adjacent tables), and then explaining the game to new players as we play.

The time also includes building the armies, using the lists provided.

If you're too shy to buy atm, then play the game and make the decision afterwards.

I think Sam's done a pretty good job on these he's injected a fair amount of flavour into a scale where others have failed.

I would agree with -advocate- command and control is where they won me over. Haven't played the campaign system yet but would think this would add even more flavour to the game.

The cards in Blucher are not used to determine who or what moves when, in what order or how far, or any other action.

The only cards used in Blucher are the unit cards, and you do not need them to play the game. The unit cards can be used as substitutes for miniatures or as compliment to your miniatures as a convenient way to track the strength of individual units. Really no different than using a roster or casualty caps--or really any other method for that matter.

The attraction of the unit cards is the amount of information the cards conveniently display and the quality of the cards themselves. The unit cards allow the wargamer to experience a visually pleasing game with a minimum of time and overhead. You can play a cool looking game while you build your collection of finely painted napoleonic armies.

How Napoleonic is Blucher?

(Before I roll my sleeves up and wade in, let me just mention that I am biased – I was involved in the (extensive) play testing of Blucher)

So first of all, we have to determine what defines 'Napoleonic' I guess, and see if that is replicated in Blucher:

So a simple table: Napoleonic Warfare characteristic – Is this reflected in Blucher?

Corps Level organisation and manoeuvre – Check
The ability to mass grand Batteries – Check
The use of Cavalry as a shock arm able to attrite Infantry and exploit grand tactically – Check
Large armies able to move fast in 'ímpulse' rather than 'Linear' fashion to quickly form a mass of decision – Check

Looking pretty Napoleonic so far! As Justin and others point out, a lot of what you may associate with a 'Napoleonic'wargame, skirmishers, etc, are actually more a function of the level you are playing at. So the skirmishing takes place, but is not specifically modelled as this is a Corps level game.

And therein lies the answer – the essence of the Napoleonic period was the use of Corps as the C in C's functional level of command.

Yet Cavalry is powerful enough, committed at the right time, to make this tabletop action different from subsequent periods such as the ACW or FPW – it is quintessentially Napoleonic in flavour.

It of course is NOT a card game! Cards may be substituted, or used alongside, miniatures, but the ruleset is a plain old book just the same as the Bible at your bedside!

We still rolling dem bones!

Some more info about a game here link

If you want a card game with miniatures then Blucher is fine

This can be said about Maurice and possibly Longstreet (don't know, don't own it), but Blucher can be played without any cards at all. They are used either in place of miniatures for those who have not yet built armies or they can be used as blinds to create fog of war and are replaced with miniatures once scouted.

To sum up, Blucher is not card activated in any way.

Indeed, as stated at least twice in the thread above. However it seems that this clear statement, that Blucher is NOT a card driven game cannot be stated often enough these days!

Time was, commentators waited until they had actually read the rules, or perhaps even played a game or two, before passing opinion. Those were happy days…

So your saying it's a card driven game then.

Sorry

Couldn't resist.

The various explanations of this game have made it resally clear what the optional cards are for – maybe some wargamers just aren't cut out for Naps

Now the big question – anyone demo'ing at Salute this year?

I've also seen people complaining that the rules cost 50 pounds. The rules cost 28 pounds in the UK (and of course are available in PDF for much less). The cards cost 22. You don't have to buy the cards if you don't want to.
Some people don't want to let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Anything that allows you to pin infantry in place by threatening it with cavalry, and then allows you to punish them with artillery… Well, seems good to me.

And yeah, it is amazing how people pass judgment without playing a game. I feel like the Internet really brings out the worst in people, and there are a few awfully miserable wargamers out there.

Just had my first push through of the rules, using the downloads from the site. It puts four french corps against three Austrian. To me, it feels more like a Napoleonic battle than almost any other set I have played, purely because it was this scale, and it rely like a large scale battle. Very impressed. The only downside is that playing it with the card sized base widths, I think you need to use 6mm miniatures. It would work well with a bigger sized unit, but you'd need a big table. But it's the first game I've ever played where you could see a cavalry corps used to pin one side of an army, so the artillery could soften and an infantry corps could punch in.
Well done Sam, excellent set of rules

It's £28.00 GBP That's the price of a decent curry, lunch for two, a single cinema visit, or a small round of coffees in Starbucks.

It won't even fill your petrol tank. Nor get you very far on a train.

So if you are curious, just buy the effing Blücher rules, ya miser. They are excellent. You will like them. You will play them. When they are sold out you will be sorry you didn't buy them.

DBN don't even come close to a decent Napoleonic game by comparison.

You have spent a fortune on buying armies, spent ages lovingly painting them. Treat them to the rules they deserve!

My 2 verry small cents.

Haven't played it yet, but bought the pdf yesterday.

The rules are clearly sam mustafa rules, feel like a mix of lasalle and grand armee.

Both of which have a very napoleonic feel.

I bought murice but i don't like card driven games, so i never bought Longstreet. I was very happy when i learned blucher would not be card driven.

I bought the pdf, think it worked out to about £19.00 GBP UK as I remember.

They do seem to be very good rules.

I am new to 6mm. Had a look at Baccus and Adler. Went with Adler. Must say they are beautiful models, I can't believe the detail on such tiny figures.

I agree with Mrboots – To my mind, what makes a game feel Napoleonic is the interplay of the different units in 'rock sissors paper' manner. No one unit type is dominant: Horse can run down guns but is stopped by foot in square, foot in square are vulnerable to guns, etc…

Blucher models this well at the grand tactical level, adding in further limitations on command control, in an easy and quick to play fashion. And its fun to play too!

A huge bonus is how basing can be flexible. As an example, I'm noticing a good number of people who's miniatures are based for Napoleon's Battles are turning to this set.

It will be interesting to see how popular this game becomes. So far the reviews have all been positive.

Going back to Allen's original question "Does it still feel like Napoleonics?" I'd like to relate my last Blucher game experience: I was the French commander and I had 3 infantry corps plus a cavalry reserve at my disposal. I organized my corps artillery in a grand battery that I planned to punch a hole in the Austrian lines with and then exploit that gap with the cavalry reserve. In the mean time my infantry would apply pressure along the front and I planned a surprise hidden move around the Austrian flank.

It didn't go off exactly as planned but it sure felt Napoleonic!

I mention this not to try to convert anyone to any rules in particular. Only to point out that corps level game can have just as much period excitement as any other game level.

One last Blucher comment: Centurian mentioned that there is rock/paper/scissors interplay. This is true although the game does include attrition so eventually any weakened unit is pretty easy pickings.

The issue of "feel" is an interesting one in wargaming. It comes down to what level of historical writing interests you and therefore what assumptions you make about how a period should be represented in gaming. I find that most players like the idea of pushing around Napoleonic battalions and experiencing (by the physicality of moving the models) the formation changes of column, line, square and skirmish order. I adhere to this and therefore never found Napoleon's Battles of interest. However, if someone is not worried about this and like the idea of the 'grand narrative' of senior commanders, then a game like Blucher might fit the bill. I bought the rules immediately and they look really well thought out for their level of representation.

Played our first game of Blucher on Thursday night although we have sufficient figures for the game we decided to use the cards.

An excellent game well written. We finished the introductory scenario in a little over 3 hours with many references to the rules as we hadn't time to fully read them before the game.

People complain cards are expensive but £22.00 GBP for Waterloo campaign is dead cheap would cost alot in 6mm or 15mm and lots of painting required. But cards are straight on table and and will definitely buy more packs as released.

Finally found a set of Napoleonic rules I like.