"DLD Productions 15mm sf Kickstarter" Topic

link

Looks good, still going through the details.

Rules things (Special Characters) that are KS exclusive? Not miniatures. Rules.

This sort of nonsense has already warned me off of other KS campaigns, and may keep me out of this one.

Ooff, base funding goal is 70k? This thing already looks like a bridge too far.

-Will

Gah, they don't even have the vehicles CAD rendered for their plastics production yet. Man, I hate to say this since I liked the look of the DLD stuff but I'm not feeling confident on this one.

-Will

Years ago I placed an order with DLD for a couple hundred bucks. Sent the payment, got a couple of emails that my order was being worked on and would ship.

Then nothing for 4 months. Sent at least 5 emails, left phone messages, no reply. This went on for just over 6 months.

Contacted my credit card company and they got my funds back. Then I got an email from DLD asking why I had wanted my cash back and if I wanted to reorder.

I declined and went with another company for my Sci-Fi vehicles.

Now, I did get my cash back and the owner of DLD at the time didn't fight the return of the money, just wanted to let others know of my experience with DLD.

Don't know if it is still owned by the same people.

DLD back in the day was a one-man operation, design, mold, prep and ship.

Not trying to make excuses for him, just laying out fact.

He did fall behind, the problem was never interest from customers, it was not being able (or willing) to hire or retain assistance/employees/interns/whatever to handle the volume of interest his products generated.

While my own (couple hundred dollar) order from him for 28mm vehicles went, "OK," I never ordered again after meeting with him at a local convention and hearing him speak openly about DLD's issues when I inquired.

I wish no ill will on any mfgr, so jump in or stay out at your own estimation of DLD's worth. Maybe he's attracted partners and the promise of more capital up front has changed his ability to obtain, "help," or maybe his rep has been damaged enough that you (15mm gamers) still do not want to take the chance.

The vehicles were very nice: Cutting edge.

A decade ago.

Since then, we have all become spoilt for choice, to be brutal, with models that don't require $70 USDk of faith.

It's going to be a tricky sell but I wish them well with their enterprise.

John T

^^^ Pretty much what John says.

When I saw "DLD KS" I was pretty excited, but it looks like a reprint of his old models from times gone by. They aren't bad designs, but given the 15mm market today I don't see a need to risk $$$ up front on what's being shown.

One minor quibble with the layout of the sidebar. It's almost impossible to see what you're getting because every pledge refers to the pledge before it, which refers to the pledge before it, which refers to the pledge before it…
The levels are spelled out slightly clearer at the bottom, but it's still a bit jumbled and there's no easy top-of-the page pledge to just buy the game "This is War". Every kickstarter needs a flagship pledge level that is easy to see, understand and select.

I happen to like the old DLD designs and I wish them the best, but the goal is pretty high and considering what folks generally expect as regards to the layout of a kickstarter, I'm not sure this is ready for primetime.

Similar infantry can already be had from other suppliers and the vehicle designs don't excite at all. Presentation looks pretty bad too which doesn't bode well for the rulebook (okay solid rules are more important than sparkly graphics).

I was also quite surprised by the 19 different pledge levels, coming at a time when the more successful KS campaigns are tending towards simplification of pledge levels.

Still, nice to see the formation cards from old Games Workshop Space Marine / Epic getting a re-use ;-)

I had the chance it play a demo game of This is War a while back and it seemed pretty solid. Nothing wildly innovative, but good.

Speaking with David, the idea behind this effort is to take production fulfillment out of his hands. He always wanted to design models and wasn't that great of a businessman. He found partners with experience in plastics and so forth because he knew that they could handle production and distribution better than he could.

A lot of the problems with resin production actually revolved around the rent for his workshop getting too high and then (the garage?) being too cramped to work efficiently.

Oh, in the demo I played, we both had APCs and infantry, with one fire support vehicle. Thin-skinned, pretty big gun. Rate of Fire ended up dominating, since with a 1-in-3 or 50-50 chance to hit, shooting more times had a huge effect. When I killed the other guy's fire support vehicle, he was in serious trouble. Probably very different with heavier vehicles and/or larger forces.

I like the idea of shifting into plastic, and it looks like a certain amount of logic has gone into the choice of making the first sprues multi purpose wheeled vehicles as they will always be useful. I'm not convinced the pledge structure is right – I don't really want a set of rules and cards etc – I want a platoon of plastic AFVs I can use with whatever rules I fancy. The way to get that would seem to be just pledge $1 USD and then go with the upgrades, but if a lot of people do that he will never hit the $70 USDk to make it happen in the first place.

Good luck to him but I cant see anything there that will make me part with my $$ at the moment

Speaking with David, the idea behind this effort is to take production fulfillment out of his hands. He always wanted to design models and wasn't that great of a businessman. He found partners with experience in plastics and so forth because he knew that they could handle production and distribution better than he could.

A lot of the problems with resin production actually revolved around the rent for his workshop getting too high and then (the garage?) being too cramped to work efficiently.

Makes sense.

As with all KS, I've pledged what I can afford to lose completely.

I was fortunate enough to get some of his vehicles back in the day.

Took a while, but I did receive them.

Their designs are quite nice.

Don't see any of the anti-grav IFVs, so presumably those may be released later.

He went out of business before with a little over a hundred of my funds and I had nothing to show for it. I would stay far away from anything he project he is a part of.

If you risk your money best of luck.

I'm glad for this info guys, thanks.

DLD statement

This is a statement of explanation for the past business action/non-action of DLD Productions.

Prior to 2005, DLD Productions was releasing new kits about every other month, and producing
various different kits in several different scales and genres. Most were scifi with a small amount of Medieval style.

In late 2005, DLD Productions started to suffer some computer related issues, and was down for a long while. A few orders came in but not in the same quantity as in 2004.

In early 2006, the economy started to decline rather rapidly. DLD Productions started to feel the crunch by mid 2006, and I had to go out and get a part-time job to help pay bills. Late 2007, I realized that, for DLD Productions, the 700sqft shop was no longer going to be feasible to keep, and so I had to move everything back to the 300sqft garage where it all started. The computer issues continued plague us, and I did not have enough funds to replace the sickly equipment.

In 2007 I moved everything from a 700sqft shop to a 300sqft garage, and tried to keep up with the few orders that were coming in. During the move, some files were lost, and the sickly computer was now done for. There was just no more room to work effectively in the now overstuffed garage. Unfortunately, in short order, the part-time job wound up becoming a full time job, with only a few weekends to do any real work on DLD Productions.

By mid 2008, I had to get a different full time job, and DLD Productions fell into mothballs. With no one to work the production effectively, or efficiently enough to make it worth the while, in 2009 I stopped producing kits.

Having said the statement above, I do apologize for not getting kits out at a rapid pace, and for the ones not being completed or funds returned. I'm not a dishonest person, and do feel very badly about the DLD Productions falling away. I put a lot of my own money, and my fiancés money, (at the time), into the company, just to keep it afloat. I have since then lost my sister to cancer, and now have 2 friends that are suffering from brain cancer. Both of which are inoperable. My life has not been a bed of roses as some people may feel I've lead.

These are not meant to be excuses for some folks not getting all their order, or the whole order or their return. With the loss of the computer, valuable information was gone as well. Emails, accounting, contact information, kit cost calculations, which were extensive to say the least, were all gone…. Lost…. Along with that, paper files were lost as well. We had several people help move the shop, and it is possible that some files were lost along the move. I also believe some tooling was lost as well. To compound the issue, the garage was flooded a couple of times in late 2009 and 2010. Boxes of paperwork were ruined by the water.

Please understand that being a one man operation, in a limited space, with limited help, is a very tough thing to work with. And, working in resin is not the easiest thing to do either. Between, hot days in a hot garage making the resin cure faster, or cold and humid making the resin cure slower and the chance of moisture contamination was always a threat. I'm certainly not saying that I'm exempt from people that may now dislike me. However, given the circumstances, I did try to put out the very best resin kits I felt should be on the market. I looked into doing the kits in plastic injection back in 2002, but the cost of doing so was astronomical to say the very least. So the only thing I could do was resin. No machines. Just me, resin and some simple tools.

Now, with plastics pricing the way it is today, it is more easily do-able. I've spent the past 3 years doing research and checking with various vendors to get price quotes on how much a plastic injection mold would cost……what about boxes,…..what about this and that. Doing the 15mm kits is the easiest thing to accomplish at this point. If, down the road, and it warrants it, we can see about doing the 25mm/28mm kits in injected plastic. But again, that'll require more research for those, much like the 15mm kits.

For those who have been wronged in the past, please contact me off board. I would like very much to see if I can make things right with you.

Thank you. David

Good show, David! I admire the courage it takes to come here and say that. Best of luck to the Kickstarter!

I've supported the kickstarter and hope it goes well. I'm happy to support DID & my old Friend Dave Dunn

I've done business with DLD in the past and have come to know Dave personally over the intervening years. All I can tell you from what I know of him and speaking with him at length is that he's dead serious about this and sees it as the best way to keep his vision alive and circumvent the issues he admits he had with resin production.

The initial start up is steep, yes. But that goes toward start-up costs, printing and fabrication of boxes, game components, etc. If the initial funding is successful, tooling for additional models will come much more quickly (please see the first revealed stretch goals).

Regarding the campaign itself, I have less information regarding the pledge levels, but having backed more than a few other campaigns myself, they seem pretty standard. I've pledged for many that include the 'pledge before' deal, but he does include graphics in the body that show everything a given level will receive. He's even added a new level ('motorpool' I believe) that allows you to get several vehicles and squads without buying the boxed game.

And finally, regarding KS, you risk nothing until the campaign successfully funds. If it doesn't, you never get charged. If it is successful, knowing Dave as I do now, I'm fully confident he will deliver. Enough so that I've put my money where my mouth is. Heck, he's even willing to make good on people that got 'burned' from years ago (see his post above).

As for asthetics, well, his concept is set in the 'near' future of the 23rd century. To say the models are outdated by ten years is, IMNSHO, kind of silly. (heck…the US is STILL using Bradleys and HMWWV's, and they came out in the mid to late 80's.). I don't see human forces using some wildly alien design for their military forces over the next 2-3 centuries. They stick with what makes sense. If it's not your thing, it just isn't. If the reference is to detail, well that is what CAD and injection molding can bring to the table. As for not having CAD drawings to display, I assume that is also factored into the start up costs. One man show, remember, until he gets the funding. If you're willing to offer free CAD/scan services to him, he'll likely gladly accept…

In summary, you have to go with your gut, but after dealing with him personally now, my gut is excited about this and hope this does really well. I'd like to see more of his stuff in economical plastic.

Best of luck with the Kickstarter. I have a ton of 15 and 28mm DLD product from years back yet to be painted but the minis are invariably well done.

Those minis I have finished look great.

If I have any constructive criticism at all, it is that you might want to scale back the size of the Kamodo a bit. It is somewhat largish on the table as compared to my other 15mm vehicles.