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"Persian Army finished!" Topic


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2,348 hits since 17 Mar 2015
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

KaweWeissiZadeh17 Mar 2015 3:23 a.m. PST

Afghans and Wahhabis are still missing but they ain't Persians anyway. So hewer go and sorry about the Persian Spam!

Militia Infantry Command

Militia Infantry

Kurdish Cavalry Command

Kurdish Cavalry

Line Cavalry Command

Line Cavalry

Line Artillery

And because they're part of it… Line Infantry Command AGAIN

Line Infantry

Really this Kickstarter was on e of the best ideas I've ever had…

Porthos17 Mar 2015 3:28 a.m. PST

Marvellous ! Now can you please give us directions about how to paint them ? Thanks !

Chokidar Inactive Member17 Mar 2015 3:33 a.m. PST

Well you open one of those things called a pot of paint and you take a brush….

KaweWeissiZadeh17 Mar 2015 3:51 a.m. PST

Porthos – I will write up some notes to go with these plates.

Line

picture

Militia

picture

Cav

picture

Artillery

picture

Kurdish Cavalry

picture

:--)

de Ligne Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Mar 2015 4:01 a.m. PST

Fantastically different.

blacksoilbill Inactive Member17 Mar 2015 4:13 a.m. PST

Yes, they do look very exotic indeed.

FreddBloggs Inactive Member17 Mar 2015 4:51 a.m. PST

They are…. Supurb! Now who did they fight?

KaweWeissiZadeh17 Mar 2015 4:53 a.m. PST

Russians, Ottomans, East India Company, Afghans, Wahhabi Arabs, Kurds, and countless Tribes from the Caucasus as well as their own People during Revolts.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP17 Mar 2015 5:06 a.m. PST

I love the title of this topic.

I imagine there is many a Middle Eastern statesman who might read that and think "if only that was true"…………

KaweWeissiZadeh17 Mar 2015 5:11 a.m. PST

Haha – There's just to many of them, and they've learned their lessons too. ;--)

de Ligne Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Mar 2015 5:35 a.m. PST

Is there a good on-line description of any battles between the Russians and Persians? It's just I have a Russian 1812 army and they are getting bored of fighting the French….

KaweWeissiZadeh17 Mar 2015 5:59 a.m. PST

There's 2 interesting books:

Atkin, Muriel. (1980). Russia and Iran, 1780–1828. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press.

Kazemzadeh, Firuz. (1974). "Russian Penetration of the Caucasus." In Russian Imperialism: From Ivan the Great to the Revolution, ed. Taras Hunczak. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press.

Away from that can be said that the Persians were rather unsuccessful. Yet they managed to keep certain Strongholds and even scored a major Victory in 1812.
link

There's a lot of wargaming possibilities for both tactical and skirmish games.

Eclipsing Binaries17 Mar 2015 7:55 a.m. PST

Persians seem popular right now. Khurasan just previewed 18mm versions of these. Shame yours are 28mm or i'd be very interested.

Zargon Inactive Member17 Mar 2015 8:23 a.m. PST

OK WOW! This is a must have Imagi-nation army.
Cheers and very well done indeed.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP17 Mar 2015 1:11 p.m. PST

The 18 mm will be new opposition to my Russians… One day, first have to grow in numbers and get painted.
One day…

mashrewba Inactive Member17 Mar 2015 2:11 p.m. PST

Can we buy them yet?

KaweWeissiZadeh17 Mar 2015 2:41 p.m. PST

Mashrewba, you can put in a pre order. This order would be sent with the other orders from the KS in about 2-3 weeks.

The codes are in the Westfalia shop and you can contact me via info@westfaliaminiatures.com.

ottenfeld Inactive Member17 Mar 2015 2:41 p.m. PST

Or you can read ''Iran at war'' by Kaveh Farrokh. The scope of the book is very wide (1500 – 1988), and only one chapter deals with the wars with Russia. But is widely available, and heavily discounted.

Axebreaker17 Mar 2015 3:32 p.m. PST

They look great! I really like the look of the Kurdish cavalry in particular.

Christopher

Markconz17 Mar 2015 4:13 p.m. PST

They look really good!

evilgong17 Mar 2015 4:16 p.m. PST

Looking superb

Sadly I don't collect 25/28mm these days.

I've been having fun researching the military history of the period.

It struck me re-reading accounts of the battle at Yerevan / Etchmaidzden, June 1804, is usually recorded as a Russian success, however they then immediatly retreat and the strategic map is re-drawn.

Some victory.

The 'Battle' itself appears a string of connected events that might make an interesting mini-campaign with the Persians blocking the Russians supply and lines of communication.

Something I was utterly ignorant of was the role of the small Kurdish principalities / emirates including; Ardalan, Baban, Soran, Hakkâri, Bahdina, Bitlis, Bohtan or Mukriya that formed a bufer region between Persia and Turkey. These polities could from the 18th century be at times independent, semi-independent, in open revolt or firmly under the thumb of either of the pair of major powers.

There was a second 'great game' here with Brit and Russian diplomats stirring up or hosing down passions in the theatre.

regards

David F Brown

KaweWeissiZadeh18 Mar 2015 2:51 a.m. PST

Evilgong – I'd be more than happy to add plates to any publication that you consider making for the Qadjar Persians and I am sure there would be some interest.

evilgong18 Mar 2015 3:03 p.m. PST

Hi there

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Evilgong – I'd be more than happy to add plates to any publication that you consider making for the Qadjar Persians and I am sure there would be some interest.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Many thanks,

I'm finding a few hours a day to work on the booklet, I'll send a PM.

I did start hand painting (for the regular foot) what you have done with your computer rendering.

Are you going to add to the figs pictured? I'd suggest a line-infantry fifer, there was one drummer and one fifer per company.

It might be worth asking your customers if they want irregular cavalry – perhaps depict them as your militia infantry.

Regards

David F Brown

KaweWeissiZadeh18 Mar 2015 4:25 p.m. PST

Irregular Cavalry is indeed on the list, and so are the Russian deserters, and the regular Camel artillery. The irregular Cavalry still practised the 'rear-shot' that was a Parthian invention. Depicting that en miniature is going to be a right pleasure.

A Fifer is an interesting suggestion, their existence is not a question, but it's news to me that 1 drummer and 1 fifer were per company.

Anyway I am looking forward to hear from you – ideally contact me over westfaliaminiatures.com

Regards,

Kawe Weissi-Zadeh

evilgong18 Mar 2015 5:24 p.m. PST

Hiya,

I'd do rear shooting cav as a two piece casting chopped at the waist to allow positioning, I did this with my Chinese cav, albeit in 15mm and left the legs sculpted onto the horse.

Regards

David F Brown

Baconfat18 Mar 2015 6:05 p.m. PST

Very exciting, I know what army I want to do next.

mashrewba Inactive Member19 Mar 2015 3:13 p.m. PST

Did the militia fight in close order or were they more irregular?
Does anyone have any information on the sort of proportions of militia to line infantry that would be fielded?

Here are the chaps fending off British cavalry in 1856.

picture

KaweWeissiZadeh20 Mar 2015 3:36 a.m. PST

Mashrewba – the militia was mostly used in defensive roles and to bolster the regular units. The numbers depend on the year and the campaigns. My 'army' has 6x40 regulars and 4x40 Militia.

I hope that helps.

And yes, they fought against the EIC but retired with a bloody nose. :--)

evilgong20 Mar 2015 3:52 p.m. PST

Hi there

MAshrewba asks

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Did the militia fight in close order or were they more irregular?
Does anyone have any information on the sort of proportions of militia to line infantry that would be fielded?

>>>>>>>>>>

I suspect the irregular / militia foot would form up in firing lines in a mass probably fairly deep.

I'm starting to convince myself that there were specialist irregular / militia skirmisher units, perhaps differentiated by weapon.

However some militia were recruited from nomadic or semi-nomadic people, these and probably other groups would just be a swarm of skirmishers.

The proportion of these to the regular infantry depends when and where, as mentioned.

Some estimates at the start of the period suggest the national reserve would be 150,000 irreg / militia infantry, but much of that would be tied to city garrisons or defence of their home city/province. The militia could be found serving outside their province of origin – especially the good qualtity stuff.

The regular infantry grows from the small initial numbers to the ‘late 1830s' with 50 regiments, 54,850 men. and a further 16 regiments added in 1848.

As the number of reglars increase the number of irregulars / militia decrease.

Armies could be quite different, Prince Abbas Mirza drives the reguar reform early in the century, his dad the Shah becomes an enthusiastic slightly later adopter and his brother with the southern army group near Baghdad is dubious about the reforms and could command an old style almost exclusively cavalry army into the 1820s.

Just to confuse things further, one British report mentions both uniformed and second-rate Irreg / militia. So it appears there was an attempt to bring some infantry not in the formal sarbaz units into a more 'regular' system.

Not much of an answer really, you can mix up things a fair bit and still be a Qajar Persian army.

Regards

David F Brown

evilgong22 Mar 2015 3:18 p.m. PST

Hi there

Here's a force encountered in its accommodation by a Brit traveller in July 1812, in the Caucasus. It might make a guide to a small army build.

500 Persian horse
1000 Turcoman Horse
1400 regular infantry in two regiments
2000 Irregular tofangchi / musketeers
65 crew of 4 horse artillery

Housed separatley close by was another regular infantry unit, more irregular cavalry and I think another troop or two of the horse artillery. I suspect the Persian cavalry is not the regular lancer unit, just nore ethnic Persian irregular / militia cavalry.

Regards

David B

Christian Cameron Inactive Member07 Mar 2018 6:25 p.m. PST

I'm now building this army myself, from Black Hussar figures with some Old Glory Tufenchis. I'd really like some help on where to get my horde of irregular cavalry… the almost ubiquitous sheepskin hat is very hard to find on central Asian horse…

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 11:15 a.m. PST

Sorry I can be no help here.

Not too many Persians at Waterloo, so therefore they did not even exist in terms of quantum uncertainty…

But why not start a new topic? My worry would be that your question could be missed by folk who think this is just a continuation…….

TMP folk can be really helpful…..

evilgong09 Mar 2018 5:17 p.m. PST

Irregular miniatures may have 25mm figs that are what you're after.

For my 15mm army I found converting hats to the sheepskin telpek pretty easy with a knife / file and putty. Depending on the original hat it could just be filed into shape.

David F Brown

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