"A reflection on the Causes of the German Defeat" Topic

"Much will be written about this subject at some future time by qualified, and probably still more by unqualified persons. To treat it exhaustively would undoubtedly require a thick volume. Therefore, the following opinions can be evaluated only as patchwork. I am stating them with the reservation imposed upon me by the limited insight I was able to gain from the various positions I held. They do not, however, intend either to make excuses or to cover up anything.

Germany lost this war for purely military reasons. The causes of the defeat must be sought in the blunders committed by the High Command, and in the wrong use made of the effective strength of the Nation…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Interesting article.

The author does ignore the chief reason the Germans lost: they were the Bad Guys.

Ochoin: Indeed. Given their initial successes, if they had not been saddled with Nazi racial polices, they might very well have freed up resources for their war effort.

Kind of like the Japanese. Some welcomed the Germans as liberators. Then they found out what the Germans were really like.

Attacking the Russians before they knocked Britain out of the war and declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbour

Hitler micromanaging the war. The British stopped trying to kill him because he was more of an asset than a liability.

Because in National Socialism you have the second word too, they started a war economy for real only around 1943: workers in vacations, only one shift, week ends off… Like peace time, nearly.

Then after a bit of luck and fighting sheer incompetents ( French for ex) were quickly outmaneuvered on operational art in the east.

Doctrinal morons who still thought about killing civilians who for the most part would have worked for them, while they were losing.
The last train off Brittany was not taking away any possible replacements or stranded paras but people to concentration camps.
Priorities…
Fortunately for us.

They wouldn't have started the war without their racial theories. They were bent on conquest. Saying the Nazis could have won the war if they weren't Nazis is rather fruitless.

Another example of their theories getting in the way: after the destruction of Army Group Center in 1944, Model was brought in to stitch the front back together. He needed 60 trains to bring up equipment and more bodies. The trains were not available because the Gestapo was using them to ship victims to the camps.

Maybe a bit off-period, but someone once asked General George Pickett why the Confederacy lost the Civil War. He replied, "I think the Union Army had something to do with it!"

"… Then they found out what the Germans were really like…"

Well, imho the germans (Wermach) were not so bad, the nazis were the bad guys.

Take into note the years they rule France (for example) and the population in general have not so many complains.

I'm speaking about the German Army (Wermach) not the SS, Gestapo, etc.

Not all the germans were nazis.

Amicalement
Armand

Well there has been a lot os scrutiny into the deeds of the Wehrmacht and they just " followed orders" ( as famous trial answer of Klaus Barbie) as well as the others.

In the west the whole bunch" statistically" did not reach the level of general savagery they had in the east…
Degreees.

It was not an easy place to not follow the herd.

Sorry Tango but there is much evidence that the Wehrmacht was just as involved in the day to day atrocities as the SS. Secretly taped conversations between Wehrmacht staff officers captured by the British clearly have them discussing knowledge of, and their troops participation in, mass murders. As Jcfrog says the level of savagery in the West was far below the Eastern front, however, it was far more often the Wehrmacht who carried out the execution of hostages and deportation of "undesirables".

Fatman

THE MORAL CONDITION OF A NAZI SOLDIER

"In almost two years, German-fascist army is waging a criminal war against the peoples of Europe and other continents. It seems there is no force that could stop the spread of the Brown Plague. Several European countries, poorly prepared for the defense or corrupted and weakened by Nazi agents inside, ceased to exist one by one, and German military machine, not getting a payback, within one year and eight months continued to move almost non-stop where it was sent by the maniac.

Preparing the treacherous attack on the Soviet Union, German command in cooperation with the Goebbels Propaganda Office used everything to drum into German soldier's head a picture of his invincibility, and most importantly, a sense of complete impunity. This was called the "high moral condition" of the German army.

Long before the war the Nazi propagandists brainwashed German soldier that, without a war and occupation of foreign lands Germany can not exist. Fascist troubadours sang hosanna to "total war" that will raise Germany from European ruins up to the world domination. For many years the military command drummed into the brain of the German soldiers that the lightning strike will bring coveted victory to the army. This was one of the main components of the moral training of the Hitler soldier…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

should have taken Malta. Supported the arab uprising in Egypt better. What a change it would be.

Why the Germans lost and the criminal culpability of the Nazis as compared to "ordinary Germans".

Two topics that hardly ever discussed on the internet, and for which there are (never) bold new ground-breaking theories presented every time!

Yawn. Can we go back to discussing tactical details?