"Italian Archers" Topic

Hi Guys

I am currently rebasing my collection and I am unsure how these Italian Archers should be deployed:

I am guessing they would have fought predominantly as skirmishers but I'm tempted to put them in slightly closer order like these arquebusiers:

Does anyone have any more info on how they were deployed, I don' think they were even fielded by many Italian States being predominantly from Venetian colonies?

I have Mallett's book on Mercenaries and their Masters right here in front of me. I thought I'd be able to find quickly where he talked about them, but I can't. I believe he said that in the 2nd half of the 15th century Venice was raising foot as 1/4 lances (spearmen? pikemen? billmen?), 1/4 crossbow, 1/4 handgunners, and 1/4 archers. And I'm not sure if it was him or someone else who said in artwork Venetian archers outnumbered crossbowmen. It doesn't help know how they were used really, but it does go to show that the Venetians used them at least.

At those kinds of ratios, the missile troops are outnumbering the hand-to-hand guys three to one. This is embarking on the tercio period, where missile formed over half of the tercio. Some was out beyond the pike and sword as skirmishers, the rest were "inside" the square and shot over the pike and sword when stationary. Or, more usually, went out in front and did the shot by induction and reduction, in the case of the arquebus, and the usual (but vanishing) tactical deployment of bow and crossbow in support of the gunnes. By the 16th century, bow and crossbow together were less than half of the total "shot", and the gunnes increased in proportion until they had replaced all battlefield use of the bow and crossbow by mid-century, in many cases earlier than that.

So if you want to use them as skirmishers keep them loose. If they are seriously shooting in volley, or massed shot, then they ought to be close together. It seems that either or both were going on the whole period of evolving pike and shot….

Thanks Guys

idontbelieveit I have Mallet's Mercenaries book and his work with John Hale on The Organisation of the Venetian army I hadn't thought about looking back through these, there maybe some useful stuff about the archers.

Great War Ace I may do a couple of Skirmish bases and have the rest in closer order. I am not sure if the archers fought that closely in conjunction with the Italian Pike though, especially in the first decade of the 1500s.

A lot of the Venetian holdings were defended castles and ports throughout the Adriatic and Aegean. That might explain the high number of missile troops as from defended walls.

If I remember Hale and Mallett correctly, the archers were predominantly the missile type of choice on the galleys. They could cope better with Ottoman firepower than slower loading crossbows.
So I base mine as skirmishers. As Marines they would be more used to fighting on shipboard than land so a loose cloud would probably be a better representation.

Surely on shipboard they would be packed as closely together as possible/unavoidable. "Skirmishing order" does not exist when shooting from the packed decks of ships!

I can see the ratio being a function of mustered garrisons. Good point.

It seems to me that particularly during the "transition" from bows and crossbows to gunnes, armies would muster what they had available. Some places were highly medieval longer than other places. E.g. England was mustering archers for the first half of the 1500s and had very few gunners, relying mostly on mercenaries for them. Some parts of Italy were heavily invested in the bow and crossbow. Both weapons were made of composite materials imported from overseas, and even the weapons themselves were imported fully made. This did not end overnight because other armies, e.g. the Swiss, were rapidly converting to gunnes. So I would expect a mixture of all three weapons for several decades in a typical "transitioning" army….