"Variable Movement and Simulating Speed & Acceleration " Topic

For me the presence of uncertain measure simulates an unparalleled non-linear experience of the battle field where numerous activities are taking place in the represented reality. We are severely restricted by the nonsynchronous gaming mechanics that we employ to activate all of these single elements as if we trying to hold each one aloft but only having one hand to do so. Variable movement merged together with random activations obliterates the "absolutism" of getting to the other side of the street unharmed when the player is in the absolute knowledge of exact distance, exact activation of one single unit in this "frozen state of time," absence of overwatch, absence of any other unit on the battlefield been able to react on time.

Who knows if the MG42 whose immediate attention has been drawn towards the introduction of the noisy Sherman will not in fact notice the US rifle team sprint across the street.

The non- absolute movement of the rifle team does not represent only the movement of their unit. It is representative of the entire cast of the battle. Representative of the MG42's amazing alertness that they saw the rifle team and reacted just in time to swing around and shower the street in lead. Excitement. Or the absolutism of 10 inches is less than 12 and I know the MG42 is not on overwatch. That rifle team have said their prayers and the God of the Cosmos, Lord of all time and space has answered, as He always does. In this case He is nothing more than the Rule Book and its restricted movement laws.

Can I give you a narrative from an actual report

Report was based on Operation Biting

Barrack's House or Villa with the Radar in front

If we take a look at the the situation in my own game… My British team (British Flight Sergeant Cox and several sappers) need to run from a house across a fairly short distance to a radar building to dismantle the radar equipment. This open ground is in clear sight of an German MG.

My version of the Villa or Barracks House

Game Situation: In this Turn the German MG had already fired at a bren gun team on the second story of the Villa in this turn so he isn't in overwatch mode and so according to the rules was not entitled to shoot or activate in this turn again. There are no other enemy in LoS of this open patch of game table. The distance in game terms was 6 inches. Time is of the essence as the two German companies will have an excellent chance of activating in the next turn as there has been gun fire. (Can't remember exactly but I think it was a 50% chance for each company and then 100% chance in the turn after that.) The British have a random chance of dismantling the radar once they are in the Radar Building (no chance first turn, 5,6 next turn, 3,4,5 turn after, automatic after that)

In a fixed movement game as the player I know what to do. I run 6 inches. I get into the building. Not exciting at all. Yawn. Yaaawn. Snore… :)

In a variable movement game I can sprint across with 3 d6's. I know the German's cannot shoot at me this turn they already have activated. I'm not entirely sure that I'll make it across. Kind of unlikely the British won't but it's not a certainty. Realistic uncertainty and bloody exciting!

Real Life interpretation of the game: The British notice the MG is firing furiously at the top window of the house, its a short distance to the radar and the German MG look distracted with the Bren Team…in reality however the British don't know for sure if the German's do notice them running across and react in time…even if it seems unlikely. They can't afford to waste much time. But they certainly can't afford to lose Sergeant Cox to MG fire.

So now the British are left with a choice;

as the MG does look kind of busy do they risk it and sprint across now (time is of the essence…there are 2 whole companies of Germans awaking right now to the sound of gunfire in the near by village.
Do they put down some suppressing fire on the German MG and then run across. Remember only British Flight Sergeant Cox can dismantle the radar equipment
So the dice which are available to the British are rolling 3 d6 if they run full pelt (like the clappers as they say…)

Important: The result of the total dice is not to be understood just as speed.

If they roll crap it doesn't mean Sergeant Cox is an over weight hippo. It doesn't mean he's leading a band of legless pygmy sappers. It doesn't even necessarily mean they slip and fall over. Nor do they decide its a nice place for a picnic and the moon looks just lovely shining on the sea this morning.

It means they need to make a decision and they're not in complete control of the situation. While the MG42 is involved in a firefight with the bren team it isn't out of the fight yet. Without Cox the operation is a failure instantly. Tactical decision is required. It's bloody exciting I'll tell you.

The meaning of what is rolled is a formula that will decide whether the MG reacts to the British movement. It is the uncertain chance of the German MG noticing the British and reacting in time…In this case its unlikely that the MG notices and has the swiftness of reaction to bear their gun down on them. But it's NOT an absolute.

That is what this roll is about…not just how fast the British run…

So if the dice roll total results in a number greater than the distance to be moved than that simply means the German did not react to the British movement.

If the dice is lower than the distance it doesnt mean necessarily that the British run slower but it means that

the German's do notice the British and do react to it…

But why are we saying that the movement dice roll doesn't necessarily mean actual speed or the strict understanding of distance covered over a certain period of time?

Because as Don said "Methinks you're thinking of fixed/specific time periods for a move…"

And why would that be …why not fixed time periods…

Well I'd imagine when creating a multi-player game that each side moves seperately from each other yet is attempting to simulate simultaneous action then there needs to be a different representation of time…

Otherwise our battles would represent the ridiculous…one side shoots while the other stops everything…then they move while their enemy stands motionless frozen in time and space…

Do you want to know what I decided to do?

This tactical genius decided to risk it al in a daring dash across the green…

Do you know what happened…

ell a $&@%! "5" is what happened. Five.

Yes I rolled two 1's and a 3…

Next turn German MG activated first and mowed down the entire team of three including Mr Cox (he has never forgiven me)

In discussions I was thinking could this type of mechanic be used to simulate acceleration and response times that I'm never entirely satisfied with in war-games.

If random movement could be used to simulate reactions and speed of thought and I thought there would need to be some form of opportunist Fire.

As in Crossfire if a unit enters in the LoS of enemy certain enemy units that qualify they can open fire. We'll call this Opportunist Fire. There are exclusions and modifiers to Opportunist Fire.
These modifiers will be explained momentarily but are connected to the Acceleration Rate of the target that triggers the Opportunist Fire

Opportunist Fire would require perhaps a successful Skill test/Morale check

Opportunist Fire would not require an Over Watch action.

Units Activated already this Turn can Opportunist Fire.

Each Pin on a firing unit gives +2 modifier (this is a negative modifier for the firer) (Based on the Bolt Action model where each pin lowers the unit's ability to activate.

Tanks could Opportunist Fire with a +2 modifier (+2).

Buttoned up tanks fire could with a +5 modifier.

Movement Rate and Acceleration Rate.
Forget everything we've said about random movement ok…its back to boring old fixed movement. Each troop/vehicle type has a fixed Movement Rate. It also has an Acceleration Rate.
An infantry Movement Rate is 6. In a Turn it can advance 6 inches (move and fire). In a Turn it can Run double its Movement Rate 12 inches

It's Acceleration Rate is (0) meaning d6 with zero modifier. This is the distance it can move across the table without triggering enemy Opportunist Fire

A Run Order increase the Acceleration Rate by +2. So the Acceleration distance of an advancing infantry unit would be 1 d6 inches while a running unit wound be 2 d6 +2 (This of course would have a maximum of 14 inches which is greater than the distance travelled but this is irrelevant to the mechanism…the Movement Rate is always the maximum distance the unit can travel.

Example:

US Squad want to get across the street to their objective. The distance is only 6 inches. There is a MG42 in the top story of a building to their right overlooking the street. It has 1 pin already and has fired this Turn. There's a German rifle team to their left right beside a buttoned up Panzer IV . Neither hasn't activated this Turn. None are on Overwatch.

The Squads movement rate is 6. They could make an Advance Order, shoot at the MG42 and still move the entire distance across the street.

The squad decides to shot at the MG42 first then casually walk across the street under the noses of the Panzer IV and the German rifle team. Under the current BA rules we know they will not be fired on. We know Absolutely.

The US squad fires and pins the MG42. And then begins to move its 6 inches. But it needs to roll for its Acceleration Distance based on its Acceleration Rate.

It rolls 1d6 (0) gets a 1!!! Its Acceleration Distance is 1.

It moves 1 of its 6 inches and now the German Units with no modifiers can declare Opportunist Fire.

The rifle team fails its skill test and so they don't open fire,

The MG42 has 2 pins so 2 inches per pin +1 =5 inches in total

The US move up another 4 inches (they're now just 1 inch from the building. The MG42 fires. It's fire is penalized for the pins as per rules. The US squad receive a pin and one dead. They are allowed to finish their move. The buttoned up panzer doesn't get to fire as its modifier takes it over the distance moved.

Now lets see the US declare a run.

Remember this is a short distance but they're not going to walk across the road exchanging fire with the MG42 this time.

Run Order means 2d6's and a +2 They roll a 1 followed by a 1!!!! that's 2+2= 4. TheUS squad move 4 inches. Then whoever can fire will fire.

The German rifle team fail their skill test and so don't get to fire.

The MG42 team have only one pin so they will fire at 6 but the US are in the cover of the building and don't receive a hit.

Of course in the game the US player may be unaware of the sniper hidden in another building to their left and he's on Overwatch. Acceleration won't help him there.

Take a situation in a particular scenario. And please keep in mind I don't have a fantastic knowledge of the speed rates of WW2 vehicles but you'll get the drift…)

A M18 Hellcat has already been on a run order in the previous Turn (this means he's accelerated to max) He has a Movement Rate of 12. He wants to come to the aid of a platoon of infantry across town. He's on a run order again this Turn. He's moving 24 inches x 2 (he's on a road so double movement) so that's 48 inches. His Acceleration Rate is d12 (6) So that's a 2 d12 +6

He's passing through a street 13 inches wide. A Tiger is down the street. The commander is upside. It has activated.

Rolls a 2 and a 7 +6 he moves 16 inches before anyone in his LoS can effectively react to his movement

The M18 drives along before the Tiger can react

I doubt anyone will read this but perhaps someone might find something interesting in the rubble :)

Reading the first paragraph, I wondered whether someone was tripping out! As I read on, it started to make sense. I haven't played variable moves in WW2 games, but I can see how it would add another dimension to the game and might help to increase the uncertainty of outcome, I often feel dissatisfied with the almost supernatural ability of units to find a target and fire at it, especially in situations where units are in built up areas or close countryside. Your ideas offer a potential route to overcoming such dissatisfaction.

Reading the first paragraph, I wondered whether someone was tripping out!

I literally cried with laughter after reading this sentence…thank you for putting more than a smile on my face :D

The problem arises because of the time split in igougo movement. My mg chooses to shoot at your mg. On your turn your men dash out into the open. If I'd known this was happening (at the same time?) I'd have chosen to fire at your men instead.

Solution? You move, I fire – I move, you fire. Pick your target from ALL available options.

+1 steamingdave, not exactly up there with "nothing much to keep me on shore so bugging out to explore the watery parts of the world" for an opening line.

Not often I'm cleaning my glasses and rubbing my eyes before finishing the first sentence. None the less a very fine article wp, thanks for that write up.

Your very welcome Left Bank :) As I mentioned I had tears in my eyes after reading the above statement too :)

In the first example I don't think the MG42 would switch targets they are already duelling with the Bren gun which is certainly able to kill the MG42. switching Aim to fire on a group which at that moment are a lesser threat is suicidal. the team running to the Radar may be a force attempting to flank the MG but at that moment in time the Bren is the greater threat. the basic concept of the variable movement is sound but in that example the gods eye principle comes into play the MG has an idea that the running troops are trying to steal the radar components so is a allocated as a greater threat than an LMG that is trying to kill them, maybe if you allowed the Bren to fire on the MG42 before they could open fire on Sgt Cox's party this would make the player think before shifting fire

Here's how we would handle something like that using the Treadheads rules. I guess you could say it uses a time & motion engagement system to noticed enemy activity rather than specific rules, interrupts, exceptions and mechanics like activation, overwatch and opportunity fire. I'll attempt to explain it and I hope it generates some ideas even if there are disagreements.

At the start of a 5 second turn increment movement markers are placed in the direction a unit will be moving and units that will be firing place a firepower arrow in the direction of their target (this can also happen in the middle of a 5 second turn with a successful SA Check). Each 5 second turn increment a unit gets one "Situational Awareness Check" to notice enemy activity around him and attempt to engage noticed enemy activity if desired by moving or engagement/firing. There are no "Spotting" rules or a spotting phase/segment. The SA Check can be taken at any time during the 5 second turn but only once to notice enemy units and activity within their LOS and out to max detection range. The unit conducting the successful SA Check can respond but it does not interrupt, interfere, stop or effect the enemy unit orders but the enemy can also make an SA C heck too. It has the best chance to notice enemy activity to its front and a lesser chance towards the rear. Also a lesser chance if already engaging/firing at a target or being fired at. Unengaged units have the best chance to notice enemy activity around them.

A successful SA Check means you can respond to the enemy activity (moving, firing, etc) by firing or attempting to move in response to his fire or movement. A successful SA Check does not activate a unit, it just allows them to change their current action if desired. There is a difference. All units are always considered activated but can only fire or move in response to enemy units detected with an SA Check. Once you detect and engage an enemy unit they are automatically detected and engaged while still in LOS and within max detection range. While engaging them you can attempt to engage other more serious threats but there is no guarantee.

There are no real overwatch or opportunity fire rules. The system using the SA Checks and Engagement Time (getting your weapon on target) pretty much handles that for any type of engagement and firing at targets of opportunity. If you want to overwatch an area point your weapon at it and have the best chance to notice and shortest engagement time. However, a fast moving enemy moving a short distance between terrain features that block LOS still may not be engaged. Enemies on your flanks will be harder to notice and engage giving them a better chance to get around you. The "opportunity" to fire on a target depends noticing them and getting your weapon on them while they are still in your LOS. If you are already engaging a target it will be harder to notice and fire at a new target of opportunity. If you are too slow or do not notice the enemy they can disappear from your LOS before engaging them.

Consider it a time and motion mechanic. If it takes 10 seconds to engage a unit moving at 5 meters/second it will be out of LOS in 5 seconds if there is blocking terrain within 25 meters so no firing takes place. If there is no blocking terrain within 50 meters it can be engaged after 10 seconds or sooner. This works for opportunity fire, overwatch or any other type of typical game rule or mechanic. It also works for unexpected or new situations or weapons that can come up without additional mechanics or rules.

An infantry unit moves at a rate of about 3 meters/second. Crossing a street 20 meters wide would take about 7 seconds. A LMG takes 2 seconds to engage a target within its 60 degree firing arc (30 degrees to each side) and 5 seconds to shift to a new firing arc. Tripod mounted MG's are much harder to shift firing arcs.

If the MG42 were engaging and firing at the the Bren gun and Sgt Cox's team attempted to cross the street within the firing arc of the MG42 the German player could perform an SA Check and if successful have a good chance of catching him running across the street – if he desired to do so. If Sgt Cox was making a flanking movement outside of the firing arc of the MG42 he'll most likely make it across the street before the MG42 could change its firing arc and engage him even if the MG42 did notice him with a successful SA Check. No activations or additional rules needed.

We're still play testing this and it does integrate with the tank and gunnery system using the same mechanics and rules. It also keeps all players engaged as you never know when new enemy activity will come into your LOS that you can respond to. No waiting for activation. You need to position your units and face the right direction to respond to enemy activity and flanking movements to ensure successful SA Checks. Engage enemy defenders to make it harder for them to have a successful SA Check. Movement within enemy LOS is deadly unless you are taking enemy defending units under fire. As the defender you may want to hold your fire to keep your position from being detected so you can have the best chance to engage new threats and enemy units attempting to out flank you. In the game we allow an attacker to engage enemy areas without spotting them to provide covering fire to maneuver elements. So if there is a tree line that is occupied could engage the maneuver element the attacker can hit it with covering area fire.

So engaging and firing at a target has an additional "suppressive effect" of making it harder for the defenders to engage the maneuver element as suppression also degrades observation and response. That's why during fire and movement you want to take all of the defenders under fire even if it is not going to cause a lot of causalities. That reflects suppression in a way most games do not. There is some bookkeeping involved but not much so I'm sure many people will be turned off. You can't please everyone.

The system has no activation sequences, no need to track opportunity fire eligibility, no die roll for success of an action (other than SA Checks), etc. No relocating moved units to a mid way point in their turn so they can be fired at with opportunity or overwatch fire. No overwatch orders or markers. There is a fog of war created by the Situational Awareness rules that can limit a units ability to engage new threats if they do not notice enemy activity around them.

At the end of a 5 second turn segment the units with movement markers are actually moved on the table by both players at the same time speeding up play. When firing at a moving target you may need to do a time and motion calculation (distance = speed/rate x time) to estimate were it will be if it has a chance of moving out of your LOS before firing. It's normally pretty obvious. Sometimes the target will disappear before you get a shot off. Like a I said, it's a time and motion mechanic rather than additional special rules, exceptions, activations and game mechanics but still a WIP.

In a tank-tank engagement the factors for a quick engagement are crew training, turret rotation rate, aiming time and weapon ROF. SA Check success depends on buttoned or unbuttoned status. It helps a lot to have your turret pointed in the right direction to start with and your Tank Commander looking around.

At Kublacon and Pacificon we'll be playing a large tank/infantry scenario. Next weekend in Sacramento it will be a tank-tank battle using the same time and motion mechanic for engagement and firing.

Wolfhag

For me the presence of uncertain measure simulates an unparalleled non-linear experience of the battle field where numerous activities are taking place in the represented reality. We are severely restricted by the nonsynchronous gaming mechanics that we employ to activate all of these single elements as if we trying to hold each one aloft but only having one hand to do so. Variable movement merged together with random activations obliterates the "absolutism" of getting to the other side of the street unharmed when the player is in the absolute knowledge of exact distance, exact activation of one single unit in this "frozen state of time," absence of overwatch, absence of any other unit on the battlefield been able to react on time.

So, IABSM then?

"in the first example I don't think the MG42 would switch targets they are already duelling with the Bren gun which is certainly able to kill the MG42. switching Aim to fire on a group which at that moment are a lesser threat is suicidal."

You could be right. Am not sure though. If we look at the situation as a few brief moments of firing at each other then yes, But I don't think it's necessarily simulating that. Is it perhaps a duel that is on going for perhaps several minutes with sporadic moments of both guns poking out quickly and blasting in the general area. There is then a chance that it might spot a group of enemy infantry circling around towards the radar that is the object that they're protecting. Remember it was a very small chance of the German MG reacting but it was still a chance, even if a small one. It's that chance unlikely as it might be that I'd like to keep alive in a game. In my reading of war the unusual and unlikely happens all the time :)

@Wolfhag
Fascinating stuff. I missed the name of the rules…what do you call them?

So, IABSM then?

Variable movement merged together with random activations obliterates the "absolutism"

Well thats that rules I was using with the Operation Biting AAR. I love IABSM. Chain of Command employs it too. I think any game that uses it benefits in ways that may not be too apparent.

Wolfhag wrote:
At the start of a 5 second turn increment movement markers are placed in the direction a unit will be moving and units that will be firing place a firepower arrow in the direction of their target (this can also happen in the middle of a 5 second turn with a successful SA Check). Each 5 second turn increment a unit gets one "Situational Awareness Check" to notice enemy activity around him and attempt to engage noticed enemy activity if desired by moving or engagement/firing.
-------------------
So how long does it take to play through the 30 minutes or so of a typical small unit combat using 5 second increments with all those tests in every one?

Treadheads is designed to be a tank / infantry skirmish game with the emphasis on detailed tank-tank combat. Infantry fire their hand held anti-tank weapons using the same system so infantry and anti-tanks guns are included.

To answer Dexter Ward I look at Treadheads being played as a number tank-tank duels of up to 30 seconds with multiple duels making up a 1-5 minute skirmish game taking up to 2 hours real time to play out with 10-12 vehicles per side. Multiple skirmishes make up an engagement that can last from 30-120 minutes and multiple engagements make up a battle which can last from a few hours to a few days. I feel no single system can be used for all three of those levels. There have been many discussions about this. This is a duel/skirmish game. There are other detailed discussions on Treadheads you can search on that also have links to additional information.

Since the topic is variable movement, speed and fire interaction I'll try to keep my remarks and examples to that. If you are going to have a system that uses a specific rate of fire you really need to have a movement system that is in sync with the ROF being used. If not you need to do a lot of abstraction and special rules to get the two in a realistic interaction. There are tradeoffs. This is where the overwatch and opportunity fire rules come into play and start complicating things. I think it's because firing is out of sync with movement. That's my observation anyhow and what I was running into trying to fit my system into a 30 second turn. You also want to have randomized interaction between opponents using some type of random activation or IGUG sequence.

At engagement ranges up to 2 seconds time of flight with both tanks static a realistic duel is normally over within 3 shots being fired (of course sometimes just one) which will be from 10-30 seconds. In WWII under somewhat ideal conditions and ranges a tank could engage three different targets and get three kills in one minute. That's not unrealistic but rarely happens in most tank-tank games. That was one of the goals in Treadheads. If a game has 90 second turns and a Sherman tank has a ROF of 3 and the Sherman can only engage one target in the 90 seconds that game has too much abstraction for me as it doesn't sync right. It can still deliver the right feel and somewhat historic results for people and be playable. Realism does not always translate into a good playing experience.

My solution to the problem War Panda stated was to use smaller movement increments to sync with the realistic ROF I wanted to use. I'd describe the Treadheads system as 5 second turns with five one second somewhat variable "activation" increments. The 5 seconds is small enough to keep movement and ROF in sync without special rules. Most vehicles are not going to move over 50 meters in 5 seconds. Firing units are "activated" when the game turn comes to their firing turn. So if it is turn 12 and a tank is going to take 10 seconds to get a round off he'll "activate" on turn 22. During the 10 seconds he'll have two chances to make a Situational Awareness Check if there are more serious threats around him but normally they do not. To address Dexter Ward players rarely make SA Checks every turn because they are already engaged so it does not slow the game down to a large extent. If another enemy fires at him before turn 22 and knocks him out – too bad, didn't get the shot off. Seconds really count in the game. During the 10 seconds there is nothing else to do which makes it easier for one player to run four tanks at once. In any 5 second turn only about 20%- 40% of the tanks or guns will be firing. There is rarely action every second or the game would be unplayable. Maneuvering speeds up the game and shooting slows it down. If it is your turn to "activate" and fire and your target is moving you can choose to track the target on a second to second basis waiting for him to get closer or fire as soon as he stops. No special rules or activation for that.

Each side is unaware of when the other side will fire which creates some tension just like random activation would. A unit can be moving and then stop and fire and move again without special movement or decreased ROF rules. If your tank was fired at and missed and you want to avoid the next shot that will arrive in about 8-10 seconds you can most likely move 80-100 meters over good terrain and if there is something within that distance that will block the LOS you'll be safe. No opportunity fire rules needed. There are times when there is no firing in a 5 second turn so we can go right to mutual movement. In a 30 second turn a vehicle moving at 20kph (about 13 mph) will move about 180 meters which presents a lot of problems for a gun that could get off three rounds in 30 seconds. I think this is one of the main problems most game systems need to overcome to a degree if you are going to be using a rate of fire mechanic.

The Treadheads system uses historical rates of fire, not abstracted. That means a gun is going to get a round off every 6-15 seconds with a number of variables like aim time and crew training affecting this. Players can choose to get a round off a few seconds earlier at a cost of less accuracy. Seconds really do count in the game. When first engaging a target the turret rotation time is added to the time to get the round off. If you detect the enemy before he detects you that means you can get a 5-10 second engagement time advantage which is huge in regards to getting off the first shot or flanking him. Random activations can address this to an extent but don't deliver the real interaction of a tank-tank duel and advantage of crews with better situational awareness or tactical position.

So far most play test session skirmishes with 6-12 tanks per side is over within 2 minutes (120 turns) taking real time 90-120 minutes with new players with no experience at conventions. The surviving tanks normally get off 4-6 rounds with 1-3 kills. Some losers never get a round off. Once you hit a target you've found the range and engaging other targets at the same range significantly increases your chances of a hit and the game can be over fairly quickly once that happens. If the enemy has found the range and you have not you better start moving and evading. Getting the first shot off, even if missing, is a huge advantage. Play normally starts with players maneuvering to get within effective range, get to a good hull down location or attempt to make a flanking movement. When you tell players they only have a limited number of rounds in their ready rack they tend not to take those low % chance shots. That helps speed up the game too.

Using some of the examples above I think if you do a quick time and motion study you can probably work out opportunity fire and overwatch without special IF, THEN, ELSE and EXCEPT rules that seem to complicate games and still use your current system. It might be worth looking into.

Regarding acceleration movement for infantry. As a fully encumbered Marine Grunt I had two speeds – slow and slower. Especially after doing a few fire and maneuver drills or trying to flank a position. Probably the quickest I ever moved was when I got caught in the burst radius of a WP grenade. I wish I had a video of that one.

Wolfhag