"Most popular Napoleonic period/opposition?" Topic

Hi Gents,

I hope this finds every well.

Just curious to hear from hobby dealers, as well as the board community in general, as to which particular time period and/or campaign period is the most popular in our hobby?

That is to say, as a sculptor, if I was interested in covering the most ubiquitous 2 armies, which would they be, in terms of sales, interest, etc.. (not niches or small nations waiting to be filled), and what specific time period?

Thank you for any insights,
Bob

France vs Austria – 1809.

Why wouldn't you instead sculpt the odd armies and gaps rather than compete head on with existing ranges.?

Agree with Jonfreitag. Once you get past the whole 100days campaign then it's pretty much French vs Austrians all day, every day. Never before has an army been beaten so many times and yet it kept coming back for more.

My understanding is that Russia vs Persia is far and away the most popular. That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

anything but French , they're available from more suppliers than i can count in every scale (which you didn't mention by the way !)
every time a new company starts into Napoleonics they do French , and you know it's going to be years before they get to anything else , assuming they survive the competition .
you might say the smaller nations are a niche market , but when you're competing with Perry Victrix and Warlord in plastic and dozens of metal manufacturers (just in 28mm), all you have left is a niche sized market for French .

there , i think i said it often enough :)

I disagree with France vs Austria – 1809. In my group I'm the only person with Austrians but everybody has forces for the Hundred days and Peninsular campaigns. I would say the Hundred days and Penninsular are the most popular. That said my personal preference is 1809 France/Austria and 1813 in central Europe but I agree with "evilgongs" comment. Why not fill gaps? It seems like a better business proposition.

Peninsular. We tend to do smaller games which are more suited to that theater.

I've painted more French than anything else but after that it is British.

For me, the most popular campaign is the Nile campaign ending with the annihilation of Napoleons fleet at the eponymous battle.

The two biggest sellers I believe are French and British, almost everyone does these as their starting ranges before following up with Austrians/Prussians and Russians.

As above, the most popular periods are Waterloo and the Peninsular. Once you've done that, then the aficionados can delve into the mysteries of 1809, 1812, 1814 etc..

From a figure pov, what we really need are more Imperial Guard Grenadiers and Polish Lancers.

I've always loved what I call the 'Glory Years': Austerlitz to Eylau, so French/Austrians/Russians/Prussians. After that the Peninsular (where I'm sure the French found the Spanish every bit as irritating in not understanding they had been beaten as the Austrians, granted the Austrians had a better army though). As such I tend to go for a combination of French in bicorne and shako, various Germans in helmets and shako, and Russians in bicorne, mitre and shako. The Hundred Days comes a distant third in my interests, though given that the later wars seem to be a focus of the plastic manufacturers, I'm shifting slowly to them…

"odd armies and gaps". Keeping away from armies beyond the Napoleonic Wars themselves and thus sticking to Europe, what odd armies and gaps still exist? In either 15/18mm or 28mm? To my mind there seems to be at least one manufacturer of everything in both scales. Certainly there are wide gaps still in plastic 28mm, even in the most common troop types – no French Chasseurs or proper Poles – and who wouldn't like to see a plastic set of Rheinbund foot with all the 57 varieties therein? But surely everything else has been covered in metal?

Easy that would be 100 days or Peninsular. Personally I prefer 1812/1813 campaigns.

Christopher

Peninsular War

There is definitely a UK bias in the hobby – and some of the weight of responses might have to do with the time zone – but I would still say that the Big Two are French/British (despite the fact that they were a sideshow for most of the war and a two-day wonder in the last gasp) and French/Austrians (as they fought the longest and hardest, and had the 1809 campaign is possibly the most balanced and varied).

The problem with doing the French/British in the right way is that the British always had an assortment of allies, which should be included as well. Do you want to make Spanish and Portuguese figures? Or, for the 100 Days, do you want to make all those minor Low Country and German allies as well as a whole Prussian line? The French/Austrian pairing in 1809 includes the usual range of minor French allies, but other than that is very straightforward.

I would say that if the scale of your figures is something new, then starting with these might be a good bet, even if they are already covered. You have much more competition in 6mm than 10mm, for instance, although Pendraken is coming along fairly well.

On the other hand, do you choose a period that is less covered and sell the line for that? 1800-1807 is one possibility, with the early French in bicornes and a variety of opponents: Austrians, Austrians/Russians, Prussians, and Prussians/Russians. The 1790's aren't really done by anyone in the smaller scales (although Adler has a great early French line). Hmmm … how about doing 1790's Austrians/Russians/Prussians to fight Adler's French? Will you sell less because it's a less popular period, or sell more because Napoleonic gamers are rabid completists and would want to fill out something they don't have?

Best of luck.

Christopher

The 1805 Campaign to me entices the most interest. I second this closely with the 1812 Russian campaign. Both are dramatic with potential for smaller scenarios to fight with miniatures.

B

1813 – 1814 war of liberation and campaign for france .

The biggest gap in 28mm plastics is allied cavalry. I think British hussars are the only non-French cavalry available.

CATenWolde's last point is very good. Are you better off making the popular stuff despite the quantity of competition, because it always sells. Or make something a bit more niche that nobody else makes, despite the smaller market? Tricky!

Anyway, I like 1805 and 1809 Austrians and minor German States. If they are in 6mm compatible with Baccus and Adler, even better!

As a player, I preferred 1813 to 1815 with the Prussians. As a ruler designer, I had 30 manuver units Bns/Cv Rgt per minor power and 50 at least per major one. As a retail store everything sold eventually. Russians and Austrians. Though the problem with stocking Austrians was the change of headgear. The Russ Ian shake or kiser presents a similar problem. St,coking Belgic and stovepipe shake was easy due to all of the countries useing them.

Era wide sales and player interests run in cycles. ACW then naps then WW2 then back to ACW. Thoughs pockets of specific will keep interest and sales going in low cycle times.

You might consider doing bare headed soldiers which be ueed in several areas. Not many cavalry or generals are done in this fashion..

The most popular is probably the period Airfix chose to do – Waterloo.

In 15/18mm?

Better do this size now.

Probably to produce news figs, don't do what all the others did before.
Insert yourself into what they did not or not well, among the lines.

Yes 1809. /1813 is the mostly gamed. Then that is also the most produced lines. Not an easy life to find good minis for 1805 or even 1800! Maybe now 1805…
Württemberg. Needs 4 different cav types, only one or two are done.
Also Jäger, the artillery with the right helmet, and the horsed ones.

Jägers for Westfalen, Sachsen…

Adcs

Generals. Never enough. None for the German allies.

Dismounted cavalry. 28 and 18mm for skirmishes.

1812 Russians with the old shako. ( 1/2 the army?)

Ammunition wagons for every one but the French?

All specials that won't be bought by the 100s if they are really good castings ( aka AB, BM) can be sold a bit more expensively. No one will mind. If they need 24 Wüttemberger cavalry that they cost like 36 cuirassiers.

No need of the 45 th variant of French voltigeur, people probably won't bother buying yet another variant, hassle, postage, customs…

Some periods might not be sold because you just can't do them with so much missing.

I suspect the reason we do the period 1809-13 is because by then the Allies have reformed their armies and the games are much more balanced.

Yes the British are going to tend to do the Peninsular quite a lot.

I'd love to do the 1799 Italian campaign in 10mm. The Russians and Austrians are less of a problem than the French.

Lots of rules don't actually show most of the command/ efficiency difference between the French in the victoty years and their opponents. Mind me Eylau and Heilsberg were a bit tough. Then if you go to 1799-1800 seems quite balanced.

1813 when you have players and space is practical as you can throw in everything. One has to like 1.2 m of guns frontage though.

The question here is about producing minis to sell I think. It should not be the ones all the others, the famous ones sell.

My favourite period is 1813-14, French versus Austrians/Russians/Prussians

That being said, I think the most popular period overall is French versus Brits, Pennisular to Waterloo

Hi Inkbiz,

First off, I would like to say that I am a real admirer of your work and I think you are a quite brilliant sculptor.

However, I suspect that you are more of an artist than a businessman. You agonise over which figures you should produce and in which scale. And ultimately, from a commercial point of view, I don't think it much matters because you are operating in a niche market of a niche hobby. The chances are that you are going to make a loss on whatever you do so the best thing to do would be make the figures that you feel passionate about and then make them available to other people. I honestly wouldn't worry about what is popular: just make what you are most interested in and you will probably find that other people are interested too. Just don't rely on it to provide you with a pension . . .

Hello Bob!

I think SJDonovan hits the nail on the head.

However, if your going to do this anyway, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. I think a three pronged approach would hedge your bets a little better. First you focus on the Waterloo campaign as that's probably the period that has the biggest draw for new people. Second 1790, the beginning, as this is not very well covered and might appeal to a number of established collectors. This way your covering the start and the finish. From there you simply work your way from both ends to the middle. The third prong is to start with infantry in great coats and hat covers, cavalry in cloaks. These two types of figures can jump start your lines as they can be used by more then one nation. Their also popular with painters who want to build armies fast.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Glenn

I think so many people have given the same advice, it hardly needs repeating. This will not make your fortune, whatever you produce. If it turns any profit you are doing well. Forget plastics, hardly needs to be said, as the investment is massive.

The Hundred Days always does well. Peninsula or Central Europe next, then 1812 (the Russian version, not Niagara and Washington DC).

If you want to sell hundreds of any casting you will surely produce lots of French and Austrian Line infantry, but have to compete with a huge market. If you are adventurous you go for Scandinavian or Portuguese cavalry (or anything in the Funcken second volume!).

Imaginative would be something no one has done……..the Restoration Army of Louis XVIII, la Maison du Roi, for example. Useless shower, but some of the best uniforms ever seen. The Black and Grey musketeers, the Royal Gendarmes, even the king himself (after all he was what it was all about and yet no-one has ever modelled him).

If all else fails, do more Gendarmes d'Elite of the Guard (parade dress and with the red lapels, not the surtout……..looks brilliant and no one does that). If you do, once I have the Gringo figures, I would have more of them than Boney did at Waterloo!

Ottomans, wide variety of opponents

You mean it isn't just June 1815 – no one told me :)

Many thanks to all for the advice.

SJDonovan I appreciate your kind comment and your candor. 'Agonizing' sure fits the bill, I've been pretty pathetic of late with some serious 'sculptor's-block', but it does pick me up to read your thoughts, thank you. :)

As several of you other gents have also pointed out I suppose it's best to just plug away at something I love, not expect too much in return (indeed it's been a bit of a money pit so far), and just enjoy whatever comes of it. Easier said than done with a pregnant wife, and a 2-year old daughter running around at home, but, heck, I don't drink, smoke, or gamble so a guy has to have a little vice, doesn't he?

Thank you all again for your insights,
Bob

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. And keep posting the pictures of your progress. I love seeing your work.

Best wishes

Stephen

In Britain I think it is the Peninsular war and the 100 says campaign . Simply because a lot of people in this country want to collect Brits. This used to be my insular approach to Naps.

However since drawing Austria out of the hat for our clubs projects/campaign , I have gotten very interested in the whole 1809 thing.

My no1 want in this regard is plastic 28mm Hungarian Infantry for the Austrian Army. I believe one day someone will produce these .

Don't Victrix do 4 boxes of 28mm Austrian figures in plastic? link