"Waterloo the movie;the lost sequences" Topic

No sign of the BluRay of Waterloo for the 200th Anniversary, which is a crying shame. I have previously asked here
TMP link
about the little evidence we have for what was cut from the released version and we must accept that the four hour version (if it ever existed and is not being confused with War and Peace) will never appear. Mosfilm archives are unlikely to throw up much now. The theatrical trailer shows a very poor aerial scene of the attack on the garden at Hgmt 2-3 seconds maximum.
We have long known that DoW meets Blucher, casting lists can include Ewart and Legros, so maybe there was the closing of the gates or the taking of the eagle…or at least the intention. Knowing Bondarachuk, there will have been much speeded up cavalry charging around aimlessly and many a cloud scene………
The novelised version of the film (F E Smith) further developed the Irish Plunderer character and introduced a French Guardsman; in the final film there is not a single speaking role for a Frenchman below Staff level!
I have built up a small collection of stills many of which show what seems to have never appeared;link here to the album

imageshack.com/a/hoaz/1

Now they are copyrighted so I had better acknowledge their sources!
Images 1 and 10 in this series;
link
Then there is this series of photos of S Bondarachuk …many pages but some images here never shown, again Boney and the fallen officer
link
Finally my favourite is Steiger mounted with his entourage. Marvellous picture and never used!
link

I saw the premiere in Boston in 1970. I am reasonably certain that the version I saw was much longer than the 134 minute version we see today. I have a strong impression that it included more scenes from Ligny and Quatra Bras.

I live in the hope that these scenes will be restored to us.

Bear in mind some stills might never have been filmed, there is usually a stills photographer on set snapping away.

good point…………..

I saw it in London the day it premiered there and it was the same as the current version at 2 hours we get today.

one can live in hope
my experience was that of 138SquadronRAF

I have a brochure of the Film containing shots
of Carabiniers and possibly unseen stiles
must locate said item!

regards
Ged
gringo40s.com
gringo40s.blogspot.com

138SquadronRAF I once talked to a friend some years ago who also went to the London premier but he told me a different story.

He said that the film he saw was over 4 hours long(if not longer)and that they had 2 or 3 intermissions.

Then again perhaps my memory is faulty. IMDB says there never was a longer version released. At the time I was reading a lot on Waterloo, perhaps my memory has filled in the historical gaps missing from the actual movie.

It does get confused with War and Peace…same director and many uniforms were recycled eg French carabiniers. That is a true marathon and the picture quality is rotten, even on DVD

IIRC War and Peace was recently restored ob blu-ray.

Nice find deadhead.

Rod Steiger makes a great Napoleon.

The Hepburn, Fonda version is available on Bluray , but not the Russian, Bondarachuk, one. Bad as it is, it beats his Quiet Flows the Don on DVD.

Steiger gets much grief for hid "method acting" as grossly overstated. I thought he was marvellous

I wonder if some of these stills were used in the brochure that was avaailable at the release of the film. The british dense columns is one I recall. There was also an article in Paris Match issustrated with a lot of picture.

Here we go again!!!

One of Deadhead's links turns up this tantalizing photo, which supports the idea there was a Wellington-meets-Blucher scene:

I have watched the 3hr version a very long time ago on VHS (copy), and I have heard of a 4hr version, but the sad truth is we may never see these longer versions because the original film has probably deteriorated to the point of no return. This is what almost happened to Star Wars EIV, but it was saved just in time before being lost forever. The longer version of Waterloo is even an older movie, so chances are it has deteriorated to the point where it is lost.

But who knows. Maybe there is a salvageable copy someplace, and the 200th anniversary of Waterloo might bring some surprises like the extended version of Waterloo!

Mike the Analyst is right. The above B&W picture is indeed from the brochure. On my link above there is also a slightly different colour version of the meeting "at La Belle Alliance".

I would be grateful for a BluRay of what we now have. Any extra scenes are too good to be true after this time.

Director's Cut re-releases often do remind us just how important the scissors can be. Exceptions abound though. LOTR makes no sense at all without seeing extended version. Lawrence of Arabia benefits, as does Blade Runner from longer version. Remember, here we are talking about Sergei Bondarachuk and, if you have sat through the full length War and Peace or Quiet Flows the Don, you will know that he could spin out a scene to no purpose.

All we got later added with Waterloo was the daft sequence of the soldier leaving the square and, in UK, we lost a few seconds as cruelty to horses involved.

I've seen two versions in the UK and like the Battle of Britain movie on DVD that is similarly cut both movie loose the sense of epic struggle that the longer versions convey.

From distant memory the longer version of Waterloo that I've seen has more action around Hougoumont and the film of the action around the Allied squares was longer and far more epic.

I have also heard of that the original director's cut is ridiculously long so I guess that is the 4 hour version.

Battle of Britain! Yes, I had thought never shown in an extended version. But many deleted sequences were used for a BBC documentary on the B o Brit…..some really good film never used.

Bridge too Far. Once, on a TV version, saw a sequence where US paras are fighting SS in a basement in Nijmegen. Bowled over, as I know the dialogue off by heart…………then saw this!

Remember that movie stills are generally taken by the stills photographer with a conventional camera, for the purposes of continuity and publicity (conventional photographs look far better when reproduced in print than movie frames). Sadly therefore, they are not proof of a lost film sequence.

Most of the ones I have found are indeed of much higher quality than off a screen I must admit. Let's face it, after 45 years what are the chances that even a few seconds of lost sequence will suddenly appear out of the blue?

I bought Waterloo on video about 25 years ago as I'd seen it on TV when I was a child and loved it. I remember thinking it strange that a scene which I had vividly remembered from that childhood viewing – of the terrified owner of one of the farmhouses hiding under his bed throughout the battle – was not on the video. At the time I put it down to getting my childhood memories muddled up – must have been another film, I thought. But now I wonder if I saw a longer version and the later video was edited.
Ring any bells with anyone?

Any one who has a foot in this biz asked Mosfilm if they have anything?

I used to have a large A4 booklet about the movie. Had lots of pictures in it of scenes I assumed were filmed but not used.
I remember a colour one of Blucher and Wellington meeting surrounded by cheering British and Prussian soldiers.

Comme ca?

Yep looks like one of them. The other had that highland colonel with his hand in the air.

I must have lucked out an got a different version when I replace my VHS with DVD. All the scenes and shots listed here are in my DVD version. Might be the difference between UK/Europe release and American/Canadian release. The Scene with the blonde Inniskillen soldier losing it wasn't in the cinema release I saw in 1970 here in Canada.

It would have been nice to show more Dutch/Belgian troops and The Black Brunswickers were just made for cinema!

Now I am intrigued…even if there is a few seconds more, I have to have. DVDs for US/Canada do not play on European systems…or at least did not! Must check if modern players can handle and the find a US version.

A favour. Check the back and tell me how long your version plays!
(please)

Now this set me on some detective work. There is a Russian version (do not fall for the similar Korean one), but, even with an indecipherable cover, the content is English throughout. Although designed for region 1 (US etc) it should be playable on modern DVD/Bluray players anywhere. The exciting news is that it is suggested to be 128 minutes (5 minutes longer than any UK version……..but see below……..), with excellent sound quality and a better widescreen presentation. So far so good, till you look at shipping costs, the time that will take and then the customs to clear, once here.
Still there is hope. No one seems to have thought to import into UK for 200th anniversary!

Oh heck……..after posting this I found one of my Waterloo DVDs (the most recent) indeed runs to 128 minutes already.

I still have the booklet that came with the movie. It contains some photos, like the one from deadhead above.

Checking with IMDB we have the following run times:

2 hr 14 min (134 min)
2 hr 14 min (134 min) (Norway)
2 hr 12 min (132 min) (UK)
2 hr 3 min (123 min) (USA)

No talk of a longer version:

link

One of the problems with a longer version is the cost:

link

Produced in 28 weeks and with for the time a massive bill the studios are unlikely to have produced a significantly longer version.

Hello to all, this is my first post after reading so many enjoyable and informative pieces of writing. I too am an enthusiast for this great film and thought the following might be of interest.

Firstly, there is a fascinating written interview with Rod Steiger in which he speaks of the filming, the dining and drinking whiskey with Chistopher Plummer. This can be found at:

link

As for video, there are some lovely scenes filmed during the shoot of the battle including scenes of the Russian extras assembling for a scene, Rod Steiger among the cameras talking to the director as well as his interview discussing the problems of riding Marengo .

His life story is fascinating and tragic. But I particularly liked his comment about Napoleon,

"Who wouldn't want to be Napoleon…even for a second?"

The address below will take you to Private Screenings Rod Steiger with Robert Osbourne and the Waterloo comments are about 8 minutes from the end but everything he talks about, especially his life is fascinating .

link

Let me try the first link again:

link

Brilliant links ………..thanks

But I always thought he was Bagration!

Bagratian 2

very informative links………….

regards
Ged
gringo40s.com

Thank you very much for the positive feedback Deadhead and Ged.

interesting article, thanks

I meant to also thank 138 Squadron RAF for the info and links. When Waterloo in UK is now 128 minutes, you are bound to ask about the foreign releases. Probably would add nothing, but you do wonder.

LOTR was the classic film that made no sense at all until the extended version appeared.

I watched Fury on BluRay on Friday night and noticed extended scenes as an extra. Suddenly many things were explained that the film misses completely……..

Great Steiger article! Many thanks!

It seems many European/German DVD players will play both PAL and NTSC versions.

Modern ones will. BluRay players certainly will play both kinds of DVD

The UK VHS was slightly shorter than the region 2 DVD. I watched the VHS umpteen times growing up, and was very surprised watching the DVD when the end credits didn't start as Wellington rode through the bodies. There is now a final, short scene where Napoleon looks at a wild-eyed Ney, before a voice over from Ney saying, 'They will chain you, like Prometheus, to a rock'. A dejected Napoleon then steps onto his coach, and the credits roll.

TV Tropes say the original print is 4 hours long.

link

Compressed Adaptation: According to Leonard Maltin, the original Russian version is close to four hours long. This may explain why the Black Duke of Brunswick is seen at the Duchess of Richmond's ball, but his death at Quatre Bras the following day is neither seen nor alluded to.

Did they use the Soviet army to make the film?

From what I know yes they did use the Soviet Army to make Waterloo it might've been upwards of 5,000 men but I don't know the details.

2nd Para of the TV Tropes article.

@ reeves lk: acc to the Wikipedia entry on the film:

'The film includes some 15,000 Soviet foot soldiers and 2,000 cavalrymen as extras—it was said that, during its making, director Sergei Bondarchuk was in command of the seventh largest army in the world.'

-----

I do hope Mosfilm have the four-hour version, and release it as a 200th anniversary edition. I watched this film for the fifth time last night. And I like it more with each viewing!

Seb

Right-ho… I just emailed Mosfilm!

I wrote my email in English, and then translated it using Google Translate, and copied/pasted! I hope it makes sense!? Wonder if I'll get a reply?

This is the email address I found and used:

referent@mosfilm.ru

… which I found here: mosfilm.ru/eng/main.php

Fascinating!!!!!!!!! Sasha might help with the translation if no response. Hard to know whether Mosfilm, or the Italian studios or even Columbia Pictures might be ones to approach…well done for trying and thanks!

I have seen longer version than what I have on DVD.