"1950's era Cold War Soviets and Warsaw Pact Questions" Topic

Just curious to see if any of the Soviets and their Warsaw Pact allies were still equipped with WWII era rifles and SMGs during the 1950s and early 1960s, and also with helmets uniforms along those lines too?

I know some of the US units were using WWII era kit and weapons up through at least the late 1950s in Europe, in some cases, and early 1960s in others, so figured the Warsaw Pact armies, and perhaps even some Soviets did as well.

I also know the AK-47 was available around the end of the 1940's, and/or early 1950s, but don't know how widely it was distributed at first.

Any insight on the above would be appreciated, since I'm interested in some hypothetical 1950s and 1960s era Cold War gaming.

They would certainly have been in storage (and of course plenty were given away as war aid).

The Soviets tended to be pack rats so pretty much anything will be in a depot somewhere and broken out if need be.

My understanding is that SKS never quite supplanted the bolt action rifles (and possibly wasnt intended to, being a stop-gap in any event) before AK shows up.
Likewise, AK was introduced unit by unit, from my understanding so there'd have been a transition period.

For gaming purposes, it also depends on the scale. If we're sending a battalion, they will be kitted out as appropriate.
If the balloon went up and we're sending EVERYBODY, then it's whatever is at hand.

I can second that they had such arms in their inventory.

In this photo you see what is likely early NVA with PPSh-41 SMG, Mosin Nagant Rifles and DP LMG:

I read that some countries produced rifles like the Mosin Nagant well into the 60s.

Cheers,
Benjamin

Quite a lot of DP were also converted to a belt-feed and stuck around for a long time.

I've seen them referred to as RP46 but I'm not sure if that's accurate or not.

I also know the AK-47 was available around the end of the 1940's, and/or early 1950s, but don't know how widely it was distributed at first.

"Production of the AK-47 began slowly, with only 8,000 produced in 1949. Production rapidly picked up, but widespread distribution did not occur until 1956 and it was not until the early 1960s that most mainline units had received the revolutionary weapon.
AK-47 issue was initially uneven. There were units with mixed AK-47s and SKS carbines and even units with bolt-action Mosin-Nagant rifles and AK-47s. Airborne and Spetsnaz units were the first to be fully armed with AK-47s followed by the divisions in Group Soviet Forces Germany in East Germany and then by other forward-deployed Soviet forces in other Warsaw Pact countries. Subsequently follow-on forces in the western military districts, those around Moscow, and then those in the Far East facing China eventually received the AK-47. Maneuver units within divisions were armed with the AK-47 first, followed by support units, which often retained SKSs for some time. The KGB, Border Troops, and Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) security troops followed. Warsaw Pact forces mostly began receiving their own AK-47s in the early 1960s."

Pages 44-45 of The AK-47: Kalashnikov-series assault rifles by Gordon L. Rottman.

Thanks for the replies.

That's pretty much what I expected, and seems to mimic that of US forces in Europe as well.

It is interesting to see the East German above, in modern helmet, with the PPSH, but thought that might be the case too.

Did the other Soviet/WP troops carry over, and still use WWII style Russian helmets and uniforms too (or ones that look similar to them), or are they completely different looking?

I'm just wondering if I can get more use out of some WWII era Soviet troops into the "modern" 1950s and 1960s era, for at least some Cold War European units?

PPSH in particular seem to show up for much of the 20th century, pretty much anywhere that was remotely affiliated with the Soviets for more than a day.

What scale are you looking at?
In 6 or even 10mm, I doubt anyone could tell the difference between say, an NVA and a Red Army helmet.

15mm, primarily, but 10mm and 12mm would be useful too.

I figure the uniforms probably haven't changed that much, to be noticeable in those scales.

What really got me thinking about this was seeing Swedish soldiers from the 1960s and/or 1970s (not really sure, since the pics weren't dated) fielding old-looking SMGs, in addition to their G3 rifles (can't recall the Swedish designation for them – I think it was something-4).

I was also pondering at the time, if Swedish troop uniforms and helmets looked similar enough to Danish, and West German (early Bundeswehr with American-style helmets), to be able to use them as proxies too, since I think the Danes used the G3 rifle also.

the Swedish name for the G3 is AK4 (automat karbin/ automatic carbine) number 4. We currently use what is called AK5.

The SMG is most likely a M/45. It was in very widespread use in Sweden for many years. It was built under license in Egypt and was called Port Said I believe. It was also used by some special units in the Vietnam war. I have seen pictures of Navy Seals using them in vietnam.

It used a 9mm round which was fairly light and with a higher velocity than most 9mm rounds. It also had a very hard jacket making it very good at penetration. It will easily penetrade any protective west that is save against ordinary 9mm rounds.

i have tried this myself and the round will go through both the front and back of the west. To stop it one must wear a Steel/trauma plate togheter with the west. This makes the west safe against all 9mm all around but only safe against M39B as it is called where the steel/traumaplate is located.

Danes used G3 for quite a long time.
In 15mm, I'd get the QRF West Germans, they have G3, MG3 and so on.
Throw in some Leopards and you're good to go for mid-late cold war.

Yea, that, or Centurions for the Swedes.

Thanks for all the replies and info. Greatly appreciated.