"Cheaper Substitute for Black Cross/Blue Sky?" Topic

The couple times I have played Black Cross / Blue Sky game at conventions, I have enjoyed it. Since I rarely get to cons anymore due to work schedules, I've been wanting to buy my own copy of the game to play at home. However, the price plus shipping comes to $100 USD+ for the boxed game, which is too rich for my pockets regardless if direct from the publisher or online somewhere else.

Why not pay the price tag? Mainly because I want to play using miniatures, so all I really need is the rulebook. I don't need their expensive counters and stands. Alas, no rulebook is available as a separate purchase or download, which is a shame.

So, are there other WWII aviation miniature rules with the level of complexity/simplicity as BC/BS that can handle the same number of planes and bombers? Or maybe a cheaper boardgame that can convert? I'm not a fan of pre-plotted movement/turns, which is another reason I like BC/BS.

(BTW I already have an extensive Wings of War collection for dogfights, so not looking for that game.)

Thanks for any help.

Try to get some of the earlier variants of the rules.

Someone had White Cross/Blue Sky listed in the Marketplace a week, or so ago, as well as the Pacific rules set.

Yes, a shame they don't just have the rules set for sale.

There are a couple other, late-war, European rules that are very similar too, with hypothetical/test designs for the Luftwaffe too, but the names for those escape me. Two variants.

The original game by John was also BoB. Rules and stats changed slightly for the Blue Sky series, and then changed slightly again with BCBS. I too refuse to ay the ridiculous price for the game and John refused to issue the rules separately, so the only choice now is to track down a set of the original rules. I don't remember the name, however – Squadrons, perhaps?

Squadrons is the original ruleset.

Luftwaffe 1946 is one of the rulesets Mako11 is referring to, very similar system to the Blue Sky series. MSD games usually has the rules at the HMGS East cons ( luftwaffe1946.com ) .

Squadrons is the original BOB rule set. It is not entirely the same as Blue Sky.

Red Sun/Blue Sky contains the core rules for the first edition Blue Skies series. Further modules are add-ons. You need RS/BS to play any of them. IIRC, the first edition ran:

Red Sun/Blue Sky – Pacific 1942-3
White Star/Blue Sky – US 8th AF vs. Luftwaffe
Red Star/Blue Sky – Russian Front
Blue Sea/Blue Sky – Mediterranean

Black Cross/Blue Sky combines all the first edition rules into a single volume of text, but omits aircraft and scenarios from the modules. BC/BS includes BOB material that appeared originally in Squadrons.

Lost Squadrons features aircraft and scenario information for the battles of Poland and France, and lots of cardboard airplanes.

Yep, Luft '46.

There's another one as well, available too, from the same company, IIRC.

So, BC/BS is a compiled then stripped version of four other set/supplements?

1) Nice marketing but I don't spend that kind of money for Board Games anymore.

2) I assume the removed stats and scenarios will be marketed if the game sells well enough?

Tried those rules several times – not to my taste. Good enough but I didn't feel attracted to the fiddleyness of such rules as suitable for large battles.

Not a substitute but an alternative is Check Your Six.

The OP stated they didn't like or want a game with pre-plotted movement so CY6 is out.

Take a look at Bag-the-Hun by Toofatlardies. I don't know how many planes BC BS can handle but you can play a squadron a side with BTH perhaps even more once you really get to know it. You can buy a PDF so not expensive.

Just because the rules suggest pre-plotted movement doesn't mean you have to actually play it that way.

They're also not really the scale of play he's looking for either – unless you have multiple players per side, squadrons aren't practical with CY6. BTH might well work for him, L46, being essentially the same game "engine" as Blue Skies, certainly will.

I've got a spare copy of Scramble available, still in its original shrinkwrap.

May not be quite as simple as the above, but doesn't require a hexmat.

Someone's rated it a 4 out of 10, in terms of complexity, and 7 out of 10 for detail, whatever that means. It has stats for about 200 aircraft, and rules for 3-D game play, in only 2-D (height being indicated beside the aircraft – though of course, you could use 3-D Flight Stands too, if you prefer). There are more aircraft stats in a supplement to the rules, sold separately.

Asking $16 USD, for it, plus $4.00 USD for 1st Class mailing in the USA.

I've also got Stringbags, which uses pretty much the same rules, for WWI aerial gaming. Asking $16 USD for it too, and will cover the extra shipping costs if you buy both.

You can reach me at:

Topgungrav AT yahoo d0t com, if you are interested in one, or both.

Just because the rules suggest pre-plotted movement doesn't mean you have to actually play it that way.

Well, I'm usually skeptical about making such a change to a rule set I'm not familiar with, fearing it will alter or break the rules.

I'm posting some photos of the game and some of its accessories to give an idea of its scope. It's more than just one squadron vs a squadron. Probably an older version of the game is in order or Luft 46. I would like earlier war scenarios rather than 'fantasy' scenarios, as fascinating as they could be!

Thanks for the input, fellas.

Looks like the older rules are still for sale, so I'll go with them.

So, BC/BS is a compiled then stripped version of four other set/supplements?

Yep, that's the text of the rulebook. You're paying Big Bux for the other stuff in the big box: those pretty maps, cards, rulebook, *a couple of hundred 1/300 cardboard airplanes*, 18 fancy multi-level flight stands and a couple of dice.

It's a superb starter set for someone who doesn't already have an extensive BoB minis collection. Maps, stands and cardboard airplanes can all be used to play other rule systems, too. Why not use them for CY6! ?

1) Nice marketing but I don't spend that kind of money for Board Games anymore.

The price is actually not out of line for a big, modern boardgame with wooden block or plastic mini components. And this is a boardgame designed from the start to be upgraded with your high-quality miniatures collection, something I have seen many gamers do to good effect with boardgames like the Command & Colors series.

2) I assume the removed stats and scenarios will be marketed if the game sells well enough?

Couldn't say. The follow-up release, Lost Squadrons, is all new material for the Blitzkrieg era – it complements BC/BS perfectly.

The first edition volumes are still for sale from various outlets (try On Military Matters in the US) and are perfectly compatible with BC/BS. I intend to still use mine.