"French = Column, Brits = Line, Aust = ?" Topic

Forgive the oversimplifications, but hear me out.

I'm starting my basing for grand Napoleonic wargaming in general, and at the moment, specifically for Bluecher.

Most folks if creating an element stand for such a game might put the French units in Columns and the British units in Line, but where to the Austrians stand? Is there something equally iconic that I can express in their arrangement on a stand?

Here are my basing experiments for column and line bases.

Any helpful opinions welcome! Thanks for any help.

Most folks if creating an element stand for such a game might put the French units in Columns and the British units in Line,

I don't actually know anyone who has done that.

Massed Column (Battlaion Masse) would look right especially if the formation does not matter.

I don't actually know anyone either, but I've seen it online often. :)

This is an old chestnut that should go away.

I find the games look best if all sides have a mix of formations….

Ultimately it's what gives you the right feel for your games. I suppose if I was pushed I would say early Austrians in line and later armies in column. Same with Russians and Prussians but Brits I would always have in line.

"I don't actually know anyone who has done that."

I have for my Horse, Foot & Guns bases. I did the Russians, Prussians and Austrians in columns as well as the French.

A source of some regret now as they are of course completely useless for anything else, so one day I'll rebase them all back into single ranks again.

Think long and hard before you base your precious toys in some daft, rules specific basing scheme. There is a lot to be said for magnetic strip and steel sheet.

I second Martin Rapier!
Large 3" blocks to me is just a big board game, yes? Brigade foot prints changed upon size and deployment and that view is what having figures is all about. I would think twice on the mounting. The rules can be fiddled with to compensate for your figures!

Look forward to the rules, but not expected to be played with as per with 3" basing!

MG

Thanks gents, I'm pretty dead set on basing using 'blocks', but 3" was never mentioned. I'll be using 5cm squares.

I don't plan on playing non-element based Napoleonic wargames, they simply don't interest me. I know what I'm after, it's not my first rodeo :)

However, I have stayed away from Napoleonics in general due to my lack of initial knowledge. I'm trying to rectify that and see if there are folks out there with some specific info.

I find 6mm games work best if I can tell units apart at a glance, and I do that with formations at this level.

I think your last point of motivation is a good one for this scale. Especially if you play with color blind mates (not that rare for males, after all!).

Battalion masse Austrians could be modelled as closed order 2 strips wide by 4 deep (8 files x 4 ranks of figs for your stuff) which would look distinct from your iconic column or line formations.

For a grand tactical, operational level, the unit on the board represents a unit's position. Based on the ground covered by the ground scale, the best formation to use by all units is a column.
This was a serious problem when we designed rules back in the early 1980s. We did not want to stray too far from the popular systems of the day which called for using lines and columns. However during seminars it was hard to justify the use of lines dues to game scale. For example on a 1:50 troop scale and a 1:75 ground scale, a Battalion would equal 12 castings. If a British unit, this means that the 12 castings in line (3 to a stand) would stretch 450 yards which is over four football fields. Very unrealistic.
So use columns for all units. You will be more representative of the ground scale. If tactical formations are important, then nationality relative combat charts or formation combat charts can be used to reflect the different formations.

I originally based my 15mm Fantassin figures on 3" bases for Grande Armee but I'm going to use them for Blucher now. I mixed the formations to try to represent the various configurations so I had the French in offset columns with a thin line of skirmishers in front or in a line with a column at one corner so I could add a second (or even a third completely in line) to form ordre mixte over two or three bases. My Russians are in their standard(?)column with a line in front and my Spanish are all in a double line, sometimes with a skirmish line in front but most often not. If I had British I would do them likewise. My Austrians are in their double (deep) columns as per regulation.

Its very boring to see a 3" base with one solid, wall to wall column on it. If you've spend hours and days painting the damned things try to display them as artistically as possible. Alas, most of the photos in the Blucher rulebook have the figures depicted in just this kind of dull, monotonous block but we don't have to follow suit, surely.

1ngram, sounds like we are on the same page. :) Got any pics of your troops?

I have a "pocket scale" game designed for traveling and very (very) small spaces, that uses 3cm square bases. These are waiting for the flock to dry…

Yes 1ngram…any pics? I am curious to see how 15s worked here. My imagination and fighting my paradigms and I am not getting anything. I keep see my 15s in a big block of troops on a 3 x 3 sabot…Ahhhhh!
Seems this system is better suited for 6mm and smaller… preferably smaller ( IE 3mm comes to mind)

MG ;-)

Sorry chaps, but I have no idea how to post a photo here

I tried 3mm a few weeks ago, nice aesthetic, but I didn't find it satisfying unfortunately.

Don't use corrugated cardboard – get some proper art board or get precut MDF from the likes of Warbases. But most important of all use flock!!!

LOL 1ngram, I'm trying to figure out what size bases I want and how things look. I don't take them to finished product. :)

This is some of my finished 6mm work

OMG I painted those Legere Mark! Wow, flashback. I remember doing that trade with you. Nice work with the basing and all :) Made my day!

@1ngram:

You cannot upload a photo directly to TMP. It must be uploaded elswhere already – to your blog or a photo hosting site (I like Flickr but they all work the same).

Once the pic is on the web you simply copy the URL into your message. You *do not* need to add any special coding like

"I tried 3mm a few weeks ago, nice aesthetic, but I didn't find it satisfying unfortunately."

My 2mm stuff I just based in pairs of 'battalions' in a line, two such bases forming a brigade (or whatever). The bases can then be arranged in various formations – line, supported line, attack column, march columns are both bases end-end, 'square' is back-back.

The unit id problem is solved by painting a strip on the rear of the base to indicate nationality, which also helps keep themn pointing in the right direction:)

Rather than using huge bases with formations on, quite a satisfying approach is to grid up the table into e.g. 3" squares or use Hexon 4" hexes, and just arrange the figure strips artistically within in it. That is what I do with all my nineteenth century and 6mm WW1 stuff.

Most rules convert to squares easily enough.

Hello Fergal!

Looks like your almost there.

The first thing to remember is most units in all armies were deployed in lines on the battle field. Regardless of nationality it was clearly by far the most popular formation for defence. On the attack the French and some of the others used columns and lines. So if your looking for the most common formation to permanently mount your figures in it would clearly be a line for all countries. If you wanted to break up the look then you could add in some columns as well. Our club had this very debate over 10 years ago and we settled on just doing lines. No regrets they look stunning on the table in mass. Everyone who sees them often comments "now that looks like a picture of a battle from a book".

It looks like your using Baccus 6mm figures which is exactly what I'm using. Their standard basing 60mm x 30mm is what were using. It's just so easy, the basing matches the way you buy the figures. This is clearly a very popular way to base your figures. Should you hook up with other 6mm players there is a good chance you will have the same basing. You can also often buy painted units on ebay if you want to quickly expand your collection.

This type of basing works for almost any rule set as is and some simply require you to use some markers.

For Blucher you can use them as is as well, or if you want the square look simply use two of them together back to front (60mm x 60mm). This also allows you to change the composition of your brigades. Something you can't do with a single brigade unit.

The Baccus design has been used for at least 15 years now without any changes. It's clearly holding up well and growing in popularity every year as more and more people realize just how flexible it is.

Hope this helps,

Glenn

Thanks for all the helpful advice folks, but I'd like to recenter the discussion on the OP. I'm competent with my basing skills and have a very clear idea of the stands I will use.

I'm trying to find out if there is an 'iconic' Austrian formation that was used in the Napoleonic wars?

Yes: "Battalionmasse" and "Divisionmasse" (a type of column)

link

link

TMP link

Agree with Whirlwind. Battalion Masse was standard, as I recall. For urban fighting I don't think there was a formation for any army. I've noticed that many rules sets don't give the Austrians credit for battalion Masse being almost as good a defense against cavalry as a square.