"Grand Tactical Rules....." Topic

I guess this is sort of a rant on having to make a decision on rules. I have been a Napoleons Battles guy since I started playing Napoleonics. I have purchased all the editions and have enjoyed the rules greatly. It has been a number of years since I have played them though. There isn't much interest in a dated set of rules that you can't get anymore. Since early last year I have been waiting patiently for the next edition to come out. It has drug on though and I have found myself wondering if I might be better off with Blucher. There is just so much uncertainty about the release such as what changes have been made, what will the cost be, what formats will be available. And there is Blucher, easily available, and ready to go……maybe I base my stuff for NB and sabot the stands to play Blucher……maybe I just go with Blucher and dump NB…..

You can play Blucher just fine with your NB mounted figures, IMO. I'll be doing the same thing. Each unit in Blucher has a footprint of approx. 3" x 3". The frontage is more important than the depth, as is usually the case. 3 NB cav. bases = a 3" frontage. 4 NB inf. bases = a 3" frontage (or 3 NB British = a 3" frontage if you used the optional 1" frontage per base for them). 2 NB art. bases = a little less than 3" frontage (probably not enough difference to matter in game play).

Have you considered giving Age of Eagles a try? My group loves the rules. The only basing difference from Napoleon's Battles is that cavalry in Age of Eagles are based in one rank.

From what I understand, as long as all the base [or the combination of four bases] are all the same, you can play Blucher. It uses base widths as the measure for movement and fire ranges.

And yes, you might enjoy Age of Eagles.

Third for Age of Eagles (down side is you will want @ 20% more figures)

I don't understand your situation. What is the reason for losing interest in NB? Why do they need a new edition? Is there something flawed? You say you have been playing them for years. I would typically interpret that as an endorsement. Or is this just a wanting something new for its own sake thing?

Another vote for Age of Eagles.

My eyes just glaze over whenever any rules or someone suggests that a specific number of figures or their arrangement on the base (1 rank vs 2 cavalry?!?!) are needed to play a set of rules. Call it a bias, but I just think the rules must be either 20 years old or the author was really, really unimaginative and thinking in a box if he put such necessary specifics into his system. The other explanation of course is just sheer ego where they thought that THEIR unique rules were going to be the final one to rule them all and no one would ever need to play another set of rules thus justifying their proprietary basing system.

And yet another vote for AoE.
As one who has played NB, the AoE gives a better feel for the scale of play being brigade units or large regiments, either case being groups of battalions in battle.

@ daler240D I hear ya! Can't disagree with that. Have mounted my troops per my taste and have adjusted all rules sets accordingly to use them.

MG

Is Age of Eagles Grand tactical?

First off I have always been suspect of AOE because of the F&F style movement chart. However, when giving it additional consideration I have never really had trouble getting my troops to move in F&F, so that may not be a real issue. I think they use a close enough basing scheme to NB to be doable. Does Age of Honor follow the same basing? There are people out here that do AOE so it may be easier to get games in. I will probably still get the new edition of NB when it comes out, I have always loved the rules.

@Daler240D I haven't given up on NB entirely but its hard to get people interested in a set of rules they can't get.

Yes AoH uses the same base system

Cool it would be nice to have a cohesive system for WSS and SYW

AOE Author here. Always remember that we offer free "Test Drive" scenarios for free download from the AOE Website, many recent ones (like those that appear in Wargames Illustrated) are in full color – Mockern, Borodino, etc. The idea is to try before you buy so you don't get stuck with a product that you don't like. There are Napoleonic, AOH and even an AOV scenario available. The URL is:

link

Anyway, take a look and enjoy!

Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

In ascending order of C&C complexity/effect:

Volley & Bayonet: bases are brigades, assumed to be in double lines. The only nod to C&C is a command radius rule. Brutally fast rules, with one hour turns and huge moves every turn. Probably the easiest to house rule.

Age of Eagles: units are brigades, but made up of many smaller bases, so there is more flexibility in representing different brigade postures. C&C is represented by the "Fire & Fury" model of gradually degrading, random control of your brigades – but the rules also add a system to manage reserve movement, which gives another layer of C&C. Like it's parent F&F, it plays faster with experienced players, as there are more moving parts to the rules than is first apparent. You really need several players per side for large battles, or it will drag.

Grande Armee: C&C is the heart of the game, with a system of spending command potential in the form of points to do a variety of things from moving to rallying. Units are single-base brigades like V&B, but movement rates and the C&C system make games a bit slower (more to think about each turn).

They are all great games, but each gives a different feel to large battles. I don't have Blucher, but I think it probably fits in the general category of Grande Armee (no surprise, same author), although the mechanics are different.

With large battles, an essential point you need to decide on is how much you want to handle C&C through multiple players and written orders or objectives etc., or whether you want the C&C "built in" to the rules in other ways. The other point is whether you are comfortable with single-base units, or want multiple bases to represent a brigade.

Cheers,

Christopher

Thanks Bill I'll check your stuff out. I'll probably game NB if and when it finally comes out, but it would be nice to have other options. AOE seems like it would fill the bill. Funny they just posted on the NB group that they were still getting photos together and all that. It seemed as though that was all done and they were waiting on the publisher a couple months ago…..who knows….

CA TenWolde- excellent presentation/reply regarding the three biggies of less complex GT rules!

I am surprised no Empire rules advocates have chimed in. Technically those are Grand Tactical play. Much more complex though since individual battalions are represented for combat.
MG

Yeah I've played Empire and its not to my liking.

Blücher is a very streamlined set of rules and definitely worth a try if you are looking at this level of battle. It incorporates a number of innovative ideas and the pre-battle campaign system is a gem. Is there a way you can arrange a test game to see if it's to your liking?

I have gamed all of the above systems. NB was fine in its day. That being said my gaming time is short and limited. Bill's AoE is excellent and plays faster than NB. Both are abstracted to some degree and like all rules you need to play both to find out which you enjoy the most.

Blucher is entirely different game than the NB or AoE (Fire and Fury based). What appears to be nice is the additional campaign rules. Blucher is well thought out Grand Tactical game with lots of scaling potentials from say regimental sized unit up to brigade of divisions. The rules are also fairly deep and you'll need to play a few games. I think the website has everything you need to test drive the basic rules. Also the Forum can answer your questions. I like the Blucher rules but I also like AoE too. Mr. Mustafa did some podcasts which are available that got me interested.

Base for AOE and try both. Use sabots for Blucher.

If you are already based for NB, and like the general feel of the game then AOE will give you an improved but similar kind of game. Much much quicker than NB though.

I've never had a bad game of AOE, even when I have been thrashed!

Blücher has a different feel to it, with different things abstracted compared to NB or AOE.

I play both.

I play AOE in 15mm, and 6mm for A Blücher style game.