"Me109G or FW190A?" Topic

What do you you think the advantages or disadvantages were of the Me109G vs FW190A? On most counts I would pick the FW190 every time: greater firepower, excellent roll rate, more rugged with an air cooled engine, wider tracked landing gear. What aspects was the Me109G superior, other than shear numbers?

Was it a bit more agile?

Who was the big German ace that refused to switch over from Me109 and what were his reasons?

Above 20,000ft the FW190's performance really drops off and the 109 flies better.

Once the 109 had bigger cannons fitted the 109 could still hit hard but for taking out viermots (B-17s, B-24s) the 190 had the greater firepower.

That's why they often flew the FW190s as the bomber destroyers with 109 escort.

It depends, do you expect to dogfight at Altitude, then the Bf109G, Slash and slice at low level the FW109, other than that it depends, are you a brawler or a knife fighter in style (the FW is the brawlers).

Better yet, Supermarine Spitfire MKXIV please…..

Almost all of the high kill number German aces obtained their kill numbers on the Eastern Front. When you look at the type of aircraft they were flying against, you can see why it was possible for a pilot in a Me-109 (any version) to out perform them.

Also the number of hours in a combat between German and Soviet pilots is a huge factor.

"Pips" Priller flew only on the Western front against French, British and American pilots. He is credited with shooting down between 99 to 101 aircraft, 68 were Spitfires. He switched from the Me-109 to the Fw-190 when it became available.

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The 109 was a great fighter, but by the time the G model came out the airframe was over loaded and outclassed against American and British aircraft. Always a dangerous fighter in the hands of an experienced pilot, but it's time had passed. The heavy cannons under the wings (30mm) that were added to make it a bomber killer also made the 109 a dog in the air. With standard load out, 2 x 13mm MG and 1 x 20mm cannon or 30mm cannon, it had reached its limit for the airframe.

"The limits of the Bf 109 design appeared with the Bf 109G series, which began production in early 1942. The Bf 109G had a higher top speed but was less maneuverable than earlier versions. Some later Gs had bulges in front of the cockpit caused by the larger 13mm MG 131 machine guns, which added further weight and drag. Pilots of the Bf 109G found it increasingly difficult to fly against more capable aircraft such as the P-51D Mustang. Despite its limitations, the G series was the most numerous of the Bf 109 types and remained in production into 1945."

Fw-190 was able to stand against the later Spits (V – XI), P-47 and P-51 fighters. Stronger airframe, heavy hitting cannons and could dance it the sky.

I don't think the 109 really had any advantages over the 190 other than almost all German pilots had great experience flying it.

The ME probably climaxed with the E or the F model. After that, too many bulges to spoil the frame.

The FW190s biggest issue was what it wasn't, it wasn't an interceptor, which is the role it was having to fulfil for much of its later life, it didn't climb fast enough and didn't like altitude. Even Spitfire Vs which it outclassed at sea level were a tough fight up high.

In flight sims, once I get to an FW-190 I know I am the terror of the skies. Not so with a 109, whatever the model.

It is a b it harder to flip a 190 on takeoff too:)

Late G models were very fast, and had a better climb rate than the FW-190. They flew topcover for the FW bomber destroyers.

Me-109G-10, G-14, and K models.

One of the main reasons German industry did not completely switch over to only Fw190s was tooling and setup. These Bf109 plants would be down for sometime if switched over.

My understanding is that the Fw190A was better at low altitude – about equal at middle and significantly worse at high altitude.

The armament of the Bf109G was adequate to engage Mustangs, Lightnings and even Thunderbolts – but unless up-gunned with under-wing cannons marginal against a 4 engined bomber.

The heavily armed Fw190 A-8/R8 are terrific bomber killers but sluggish in a dogfight.

Thanks for the input, I am working on a simplified air combat game and just wanted to get a feel for the relative strengths and weaknesses of these two iconic aircraft.

Some other combat differences:

I think the Me109G was sometimes fitted with 2x rockets but don't think the FW190 ever had this capability.

Both seemed to have gotten mauled by Yak-3s and La-7s in the very late stages as these planes excelled at low altitudes.

As far as turning circle I have heard that the Me109 was poorer in a right hand turn (at least Allied pilots were told this).

Fw190s certainly were fitted with the WGr. 21 rockets in order to break up bomber formations.

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Wikipedia has a picture.

I thought the right turn left turn disparity was to do with radial engines and therefore an Fw190 trait – but I'm far from certain. Hopefully someone can clarify.

Yes, both Fw1090s and Me109s were fitted with stovepipes.

Me109s also sometimes dropped bombs on bomber formations, not sure if Fw190s ever did but presumably they had the capability.

Heinz Knocke claimed to have invented the 'bombing the bombers' technique in his autobiog 'I Flew for the Fuhrer'.

If you want to give Mustangs a good challenge, fly the FW-190D, or TA-152C or H models.

Not sure about the turning physics, but do know most people are right handed, so many tended to attempt sharp turns to the left the majority of the time, from accounts I've read, since turning to the right was a little harder from a physical standpoint, quickly (frequently required the use of two hands).

I first heard the mention of the "right hand turn" issue of the 109 on the TV program "Dogfights" with interviews with pilots (flying P-51Bs IIRC). I also found this comment:

F/Lt Al Deere (NZ), with No. 54 Squadron during the Battle of Britain, commented:

My experience over Dunkirk had taught me that when attacked the best counter was to go into a right turn. In this manoeuvre, the Spitfire was infinitely superior to the Messerschmitt, and so long as one remained in the turn, the enemy pilot could not bring his guns to bear. And this I did, as the German pilot flashed past, turning as he did so to get behind me. But it was I who finished astern of him. The rest was easy.