"The untold story of the Maidan massacre" Topic

"A day of bloodshed on Kiev's main square, nearly a year ago, marked the end of a winter of protest against the government of president Viktor Yanukovych, who soon afterwards fled the country. More than 50 protesters and three policemen died. But how did the shooting begin? Protest organisers have always denied any involvement – but one man told the BBC a different story.

It's early in the morning, 20 February, 2014. Kiev's Maidan square is divided – on one side the riot police, the protesters on the other.

This has been going on for more than two months now. But events are about to come to a head. By the end of the day, more than 50 people will be dead, many of them gunned down in the street by security forces.

The violence will lead to the downfall of Ukraine's pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Moscow will call 20 February an armed coup, and use it to justify the annexation of Crimea and support for separatists in Eastern Ukraine…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

I read this the other day and I'm not quite sure what this story is saying, or attempting to say.

The dispute appears to be the suggestion whether in fact the first shooters were protestors (or part of Maidan) or, as the former commandant of Maidan suggests professional Russian snipers.

'Sergei' was one of the protestors, was given a high powered rifle and appears to have fired a few shots at the police (according to him shooting at their feet).

And that's where it all seems to go wrong. This is talking about February, but the shootings had started on 22 January when 3 protestors had been shot and in fact 9 protestors had been killed by February.

3 riot police were fatally shot. In contrast in February 2014 67 people were killed in Kiev's city centre, 184 sustained gunshot wounds.

While Parubiy acknowledges "I did hear that, after the shootings on 18 February, there were guys who came to Maidan with hunting rifles. I was told that sometimes they were the relatives or parents of those people who were killed on the 18th. So I concede that it's possible there were people with hunting rifles on Maidan. When the snipers began to kill our guys, one after another, I can imagine that those with the hunting rifles returned fire."

I'm not sure that excuses:

link (Yanukovich supporters claim these are protestors pretending to be Berkut)

Whatever may have instigated it, it seems quite clear that police units used automatic weapons to fire directly into the crowds.

I also don't quite understand some points of that article
'Lawyers for the victims and sources in the general prosecutor's office have told the BBC that when it comes to investigating deaths that could not have been caused by the riot police, they have found their efforts blocked by the courts.
"If you think of Yanukovych's time, it was like a Bermuda triangle: the prosecutor's office, the police and the courts," says Andriy Shevchenko. "Everyone knew that they co-operated, they covered each other and that was the basis of the massive corruption in the country. Those connections still exists."

Actually my understanding is that the investigation of all deaths has effectively been blocked by that Bermuda triangle and that was one of reasons that PG Yarema got the push – a year after Maidan they have not even been able to make progress into that case let alone all the other issues around corruption etc. There were claims recently that the MoI was even giving the small no. of Berkut officers who were being investigated a lift to court! The implication in effect is that the police are protecting their own, regime change or no (hardly a phenomenon unknown around the world or even in the UK).
To me its a bit like Bloody Sunday – no doubt some people in the IRA did fire but its still clear that the Paras got out of control and thats what seems to have happened here (look at what happened at that shooting at the mine in S.Africa too)
Geoffs point re the claims of fake Berkut is interesting – in the vast majority of cases round the world where govts (or former govts) blame atrocities/robberies on fake police, actually its the real police out of control/supplementing their wages.

Wait … there is a rumor of the Russians being involved in a "massacre" of some sort ? Say it ain't so !

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

It is often easier to believe the improbable than face the reality.

Indeed …

How about something a bit more detailed – say an academic paper…

The "Snipers' Massacre" on the Maidan in Ukraine

He jumps to a lot of conclusions. He teaches political science, yet his article seems to be that of a forensic expert (working solely from deetached video evidence).

For example:

"A video from the police side of the barricade depicts several Berkut policemen with 7.62 caliber AKMs and many armed members of the Omega special Internal Troops unit with different caliber AKS-74, including several snipers, taking cover from live ammunition fire during the height of the massacre of the protesters starting from a few minutes before 10:00am. It shows at the very end one Omega sniper targeting an open window of the Hotel Ukraina and another sniper pointing his rifle in an upward direction, likely toward Zhovtnevyi Palace."

There is no timestamp on this footage, so he is making assumptions as to the timing. He cannot see what is being targeted, and 'likely' is not conclusive. They are allegedly 'taking cover' but actually seem to be merely waiting (lot of casual walking about in streets occuring at the same time, so it would appear that there is no actual fire taking place, although some noises of an unknown source, probably but not conclusively gunfire, can be heard).

I've printed it out to read in more depth later.

Mind you, he does have a book to sell…

He is Ukrainian from Lutsk in the NW interestingly though. I can believe that nazis like Right Sector would have happily stirred the pot and Berkut etc were not exactly shrinking violets

He is Ukrainian from Lutsk in the NW

Indeed, but we have little idea of his own political views. He has been vocally outspoken of the rise of right wing groups since this all began.

"As University of Ottawa political scientist Ivan Katchanovski writes: "The far right in Ukraine has now achieved the level of representation and influence that is unparalleled in Europe. A member of Svoboda, a name adopted by the Social-National Party in 2004, became the Minister of Defense. Svoboda members also control the prosecutor general office, the deputy prime minister position and the ministries of ecology and agriculture. The paramilitary right sector has de facto power at least in some Western Ukrainian regions, such as the Rivne and Volyn Regions. Anriy Parubiy, the commander of the "Maidan self-defense," has been appointed the head of the National Security and Defense Council, and [Dmitro] Yarosh, the leader of Right Sector, is expected to become his deputy."

That's not to say that his fears are entirely unfounded, but Right Sector is far from having de facto power in Rivne, so he has an axe to grind somewhere.

I'm fairly certain that the more militant groups did stir the pot and, as you say, the Berkut were already well known for use of excessive force. There is little doubt in my mind that some protestors obtained hunting firearms and were taking potshots at the police, but claimed that they were [western] organised mass assassinations of their own side to stir up a riot indicates someone who has been reading too many spy stories. ;-)

Being outspoken in criticising right wing groups is OK in my book but I take your point (and Tenukh as 'Svoboda' MoD was only in post for a month in Feb-March 2014 resigning presumably out of disagreement with the circs of the death of Sashko Billy) so that has not much bearing on later events and Poltorak as current incumbent is really very much of a career Internal Troops officer

I think it's easy to get oneself drawn into a self fulfilling prophecy of 'fact'.

My wife knew Bily. She found tales of him being some big Right Sector leader hilarious. He was a wannabe gangster with a history on mental health issues since his return from Chechnya, only no one would sign him off as it meant someone had to pay for him…