"Hammers Slammers close combat issue " Topic

So we played a game of hammers tonight and has a rules issue we could not figure out re: infantry vs vehicles in cc

Can some one explain how it is supposed to work as we had a hard time figuring out who can fight and what can shoot etc. Also do you keep fighting till someone wins or are they locked in combat.

Thanks.

First off, a recap on the rule book:

Phase 6 – Close Assault (Phase six comes after all units has moved and/or fired)
A player's infantry TU can make close assaults against enemy TUs that his TUs are in contact with after he has resolved all movement and firing. This occurs between TUs whose bases are touching, provided that at least one of the TUs is an infantry unit.

In the case of infantry versus infantry, roll a die for each TU and add its assault factor. Generic assault values are as follows: untrained troops 0, trained 1, veterans, 3 and elites 4 but – for listed forces – these should be marked on the Unit Cards. If two or more allied TUs are involved in the assault then add all the numbers together to get a grand total. The player with the highest total wins and the loser's TU(s) is destroyed and removed from the table; re-roll ties until a decisive result is achieved. Troops involved in a close assault cannot fire or be fired upon.

Infantry TUs whose bases touch a vehicle can close assault it. They are assumed to be firing weapons into grills or shoving grenades down pipes etc.

Only use one infantry TU per quarter of the vehicle (maximum of 4) unless it's a really big vehicle! Even though it will be out of sequence, if the vehicle has ADS (anti-personnel defensive systems fitted – either strip mines or a box) roll an attack against infantry as they close before they can attack the vehicle and apply damage to infantry before they make contact (this is done within the infantry TU's movement phase – as they approach the vehicle. If the system is being used offensively by the vehicle to attack the infantry it is done during the vehicle's movement phase but – in each case – is, effectively, out of sequence with the firing of weapons). When (and if) they do make contact with the vehicle, roll two dice for the assault and add that to the infantry TU's Close Assault factor. Remember to add + 2 for each infantry TU which has a flamethrower (see page 118). If the vehicle's defensive value is equalled or exceeded the vehicle is damaged, so roll a die on the damage table.

Do NOT use Overkill (see Optional Rule on page 111) in this instance. If the infantry and vehicle survive to a second round of combat, one infantry unit is deemed to be on the vehicle roof and attack that defensive value. Another TU – if available – can replace that unit in the vehicle TU quarter it has vacated.

Repeat phases 2 to 6 for EACH player/detachment before moving on to Phase 7

There is also a side bar called Close Assault: Short & Sweet:

Use the Close Assault factor on the TU card. Bowl a dice for each TU in contact and add that to that factor. Highest wins, loser is removed.

Ganging up? Make a total of the results on each side.
Vehicles? Max 4 TUs to a vehicle but don't forget the ADS on the way in.

Firing into a close assault? You CAN'T.
And check out flamethrowers, Molotovs, satchel charges and limpet mines too…

Secondly, are you aware of the free supplements on the website? (there are five)? Specifically, supplement 4 which has the FAQs section which has a section on page 12 about Infantry close assault on vehicles (in the green sidebar). It says:

Vehicle Close Assault
If more than one infantry TU attacks a vehicle, which defensive value do they
combine to attack?

The answer is "their most advantageous". For example, two Infantry TUs swarm a vehicle, one to the front (DV10) and one to the side (DV9). They add both of their Close Assault values to the result of 2D6 and attack the side DV trying to equal or beat DV9 with their result.

IN PRACTICE

So – let's use a specific example, based on that. 6 Slammers infantry TUs (Close Assault: 4) try and close assault a Thunderbolt Division Br59 Dragoon 2 T/ICV – defensive values F10, S 10, R 8, T 7.

The Dragoon 2 has a Drozd 6 Anti-Buzzbomb (and Anti personel) system mounted in every angle except the rear so it may fire on any infantry that get within close range.

So only four infantry TUs can actually make base contact with the vehicle (even if more could, only four count) so the Slammers player holds those two back in a better defensive position and out of range of the Thunderbol AFVs anti-personnel system. Those four infantry TUs assault all aspects of the AFV so one on the front (Defensive value of 10) one on each side (also a Defensive value of 10) and one at the rear (DV of 8).

Before they close, however, three of these are attacked with the anti-buzzbomb system as they get within range Close range (the one attacking on the rear arc is spared this) and a die is bowled for each of those three as they move (in their movement phase 4). The result of those die is a 4, 6 and 5 so – on the basis that a 4+ is needed to achieve a hit – three of them are hit as they run towards the vehicle.

The anti-buzzbomb system has a firepower of 3/1 (so 3 against infantry) and so 3 is added to a dice roll to attack the infantry (who, wearing body armour, have a DV of 6). A roll of a 1, 4 and 6 (added to a 3 = results 4, 7 and 9) means that two infantry are killed as they come in and one is suppressed: it stops in its tracks and goes to ground (receiving one suppression marker).

Result, two infantry TUs are killed (let's say the two on the sides), one is suppressed (let's say the one assaulting the vehicles front) but one makes it into contact with the AFV (at the rear) and it may then proceed to close assault it in phase 6.

If more than one had made it, those infantry TUs would have added their close assault values together and bowled 2 dice and added that to the total (see further down). As only one actually made it, it just adds its Close assault value of 4 to the 2D6 it rolls. Let's say a 2 and 4 were bowled so (4+2+4=10) that's enough to defeat the AFV's rear armour of 8. No overkill is allowed so a straight damage roll (a 1 to 6) will see if they've managed to destroy or just disable the AFV.

Let's continue the example: let's say that they achieved a roll of a 1: not a kill but the result of "Stalls: no move or fire next turn". The Dragoon is immobilised and unable to fire even its anti-personnel system the next turn. So – in that following turn – the two other Slammers infantry leave their cover and move in to carry on the assault and, as the guys at the rear of the Dragoon survived and are, therefore, in their second round of close assault, they may climb on the vehicle roof.

The Slammers now have three infantry in contact with the AFV, one on the rear (DV8) one on the side (DV10) and one on the roof (DV 7). The three Close assault values are added (making 12) and the most advantageous spot is picked to attack: the roof. However, irrespective of what the result of the two dice they roll is (or even where they chose to attack) they have enough to breech the armour again anywhere on the vehicle.

To see what result they achieved, they bowl on the damage chart and get a result of, say, 5. Thismens that the vehicle is destroyed but not catastrophically meaning that, had they not already debussed the infantry that the Dragoon was carrying in a previous turn (in my example!) they would have stood a chance to have cleared the vehicle using the "What happens when a troop transport is hit" rules on page 117 of the main rules. note that, if the destruction had been catastrophic (a result of a 6), then they could not have escaped the conflagration.

Long winded as examples go, I know, but: does that help!

It is easier to play than it sounds. As it says in the "Short and sweet" –

Make a total of the results on each side. Then add 2d6 and – if you equal or beat the easiest/most advantageous armour DV, you've damaged the AFV. Then bowl a D6 to find out how badly you've ruined his day!.

John T

Now that's service :)

Thank you I think I get it. So you fight one round of combat and then do you stay in base to base the next turn? If there was no damage done to the vehicle can it just move away next turn?

Now the other issue we had was with a combat car being assaulted by infantry. It has no anti personnel system so do the infantry just walk up and swing with no repercussions? It seems like if I move first and run up to it that the car can't shoot, and no one can shoot at the infantry coming in. Is that correct? Seems like a 25 point infantry base can tie up an expensive vehicle and not be able to even use the tri barrels as they come in.

Thanks

I stand corrected as the combat car does have strip mines. So ignore that and lets just say its another vehicel that does not have the defense system.

tyrela

Yep – the combat car has strip mines.

But onto those that don't, if it's another type of vehicle. Basically, if the infantry manage to rush it from cover (or by dint of double or even treble moving and so can close a larger distance) and they time it right (typically by doing this after the AFV has moved in that particular turn) then they can get one wack in at it (one close assault) without the vehicle being able to respond as it will already have fired and will have its attention elsewhere.

But there's quite a lot of caveats there…

If the infantry fail in any of this (as might often be the case if they are un-trained infantry – Close Assault of zero – with poor motivational leadership to get them double or triple moving) of if they are just unlucky, then – if the vehicle is able (and it's commander gains the initiative in the next turn) your right: it can literally drive way from the assault (and then – if he has any sense – fire back at the infantry that remain in his wake). Or even run a team over if they are in the way! (page 9, supplement 4 "Optional Rule: Ramming Infantry and other vehicle TUs").

But that's all largely to do with timing and initiative. If I were playing a team with infantry that I wanted to use for close assault, I'd be thinking about forgoing initiative (if required) – ie opting to take my activation later in the turn – while I waited to 'spring a trap' for the foolish AFVs that came to close and then I'd rush them. Hopefully it might just work!

Seems like a 25 point infantry base can tie up an expensive vehicle and not be able to even use the tri barrels as they come in.

Yes, in the rules AFVs do have to watch themselves with infantry in a Close Urban Combat environment – it's an attempt to reproduce that reality, to be honest. Untrained mobs are usually not too bad to defeat (unless the have molotovs) but, If they are trained infantry with a good close assault capability, they can be tricky if you let them get close enough to swarm your tank. Think Soviets and the Prague spring (amongst others)

So, because of this, the AFVs tend to steer more than a quick infantry dash away from cover where the pengos might be hiding just waiting their moment to rush them. So they stay in the open and lay themselves open to attack from other vehicles and infantry or vehicles with ATGWs… ;)

Or – like the Slammers- they get anti-infantry/buzzbomb defence systems…

Hopefully, its what makes everyone have to think hard in the game and realise that no one has a killer, unstopable AFV (or infantry unit)

John T

@ cloudcaptain

I aim to please!

Seriously, support for the system is something I strive hard to maintain!

John T

great thanks for the in depth I think I have it squared now.

I did some thinking and it occurred to me that you'd raised some points that would be very useful to others and stuff that I wouldn't want to see buried in a forum so I expanded on what I said and drew some diagrams and put a new section on the website (called Rules is Rules).

This is a link to the four page section link

And these are examples of the diagrams:

Infantry attacking a Combat Car

Infantry attacking all four sides of a half-track

Infantry attacking all four sides of a half-track and getting hit by the buzz-bomb defences

Hopefully people will find it useful. It also reminded me that there is an Elite Skill which can be used to intercept infantry: Snap Shot (which is explained in these pages).

John T

Awesome you rock

Thankyou Tyrela: I try to be responsive.

If folks have bought into something – a rule set or figure range – I want to try and help if I can.

I think we've all collectively had enough of rule systems that aren't supported by the manufacturers (not that I'll mention any names) and it certainly frustrates me so…

John T