ochoin | 11 Feb 2015 6:04 a.m. PST |
Are there any accessible examples of these (preferably printable)? |
Daniel S | 13 Feb 2015 5:41 a.m. PST |
There is no period record or image of the Finnish cavalry flags used during the TYW that have survived to this day. The Swedish army did not start to regularly record the detailed apperance of the flags issued to units until the 1670's and since the Swedes lost few cavalry flags during the war there is no record of their apperance in 'enemy' sources either. |
David Taylor | 13 Feb 2015 12:55 p.m. PST |
I made up my own flag, using the medieval crest of Finalnd (which can be downloaded from Wikipaedia) on a white background with a blue and white border to the flag (which seemed appropriate for Finnish troops). As no records exist of what it did look like, it is as good an interpretation as any. |
ochoin | 13 Feb 2015 8:47 p.m. PST |
Thank you gentlemen. @ David: good idea. |
davbenbak | 14 Feb 2015 9:27 a.m. PST |
Yes, Thanks. I have been wondering the same thing. To date my Hakkepells have gone flagless. |
Militia | 14 Feb 2015 11:54 a.m. PST |
Good day, comrades! Recently in Russia at the forum"the battle Field" – Military history in games and miniatures, I raised the topic of Hakkepells. |
Militia | 14 Feb 2015 11:57 a.m. PST |
Viborg and Nyslott Cavalry Regiment – третий полк Hakkapeliitta |
Militia | 14 Feb 2015 12:01 p.m. PST |
link The city guards the eye of Totta |
Daniel S | 14 Feb 2015 4:44 p.m. PST |
That colour for the Viborg & Nyslott cavalry regiment is wrong I'm afraid, it is from Gush who dates it to 1665 but gives no information about the colours. The date is correct but Gush artist or the source used by the artist has gotten a lot of things wrong. The flag is lacking the laurels surrounding the main symbol of the flag and that symbols is not a nude Fortuna but a simple black key. Also missing is the year 1665 which was embroidered on the flag and who ever made the coloured version of the flag missed that those decorations in the corners are actually grenades with flames coming out of them while the tulips are the wrong shape. And last but not least the original flag is green. I suspect that some translation software made a mess of title of the Tott image. While Tott's regiment did include some Finns & native Swedes it was an enlisted mercenary unit which was mainly made up of Germans and was not counted as part of the native Swedish cavalry in the way the Finns were. |
TamsinP | 15 Feb 2015 3:17 p.m. PST |
I grabbed a flag from a slightly later period when I did some Finn cavalry a couple of years ago:
I figured that it was unlikely to have changed significantly in the intervening decades. |
Daniel S | 15 Feb 2015 3:35 p.m. PST |
Actually that is the pattern M/1686 flag which was in a new style that in this case replaced the old flags & diffrent flags used the Nyland regiment in the Scanian war. Swedish flag designs changed significantly post-1660 and even more so after the the Scanian war when a complete and highly detailed system of flags & standards was introduced and enforced. |
Daniel S | 15 Feb 2015 4:58 p.m. PST |
Like their Swedish counter-parts the Finns had only a limited connection to the 'nation', their identity was first and foremost provincial and the regiments were set up along provincial lines. The white & blue colours today associated with Finland were only introduced in the 19th Century and held no special significance during the TYW. The provicial recruitment areas were: Åbo & both Satakundas ( Åbo & Björneborg cavalry regiment) Nyland & Tavastland (aka Nylands & Tavastehus cavalry regiment) Karelia including Viborg & Nyslott (Viborg & Nyslot cavalry regiment aka Karelian cavalry regiment) Unlike a lot of Catholic League & Imperial standards the native Swedish standards were not made from a double layer of silk and did not have diffrent images on the obverse and reverese. (Imperial standards often had the Imperial eagle & the Emperors cypher on the obverse and a image that was unique to that particular company on the reverse). It is only during the 1670's that such flags begin to be used by the Swedish army and it is only with the pattern 1686 standards that every one gets such flags. (Except the units insisting on retaining their old pattern 1665 or 1670's flags) The design of native Swedish flags including those used by the Finns tended to be fairly plain compared to many continental cavalry standards. At the start of Gustavus regin most native standards were very simple indeed with a mix of striped flags, striped flags with a saltire or single field flags with saltire or cross. There was also the odd standard quartered into 4 fields. During the Polish war new standards issued began to only have a field in a single colour. At the start of the TYW all native Swedish cavalry regiments had standards that were the same colour while the Finns still fought in ad-hoc squadrons with diffrent standards for each company. Proper regimental standards only appeared with the formal introduction of the Finnish cavalry regiments in 1634. The symbols used on native Swedish cavalry standards tended to be fairly simple and mainly connected to the Royal regalia and the Royal house. I.e close Royal crown, open Ducal crown, Globus cruciger, the "Riksnyckel" (Key of State, unique to the Swedish Royal regalia), the 3 crowns , Royal lions hold a Crown and so on, the Uppland cavalry regiment also had a single standard with the flaming mountains of the province of Vastmanland which is a tantalizing hint that some standards could have carried images connected to the provincial coat of arms. It should be noted that the full coat of arms would not be used on a standard at this time since their use was restricted by Royal prerogative. But at least in Gustavus time the various Royal symbols were the most common. There is no evidence that the native Swedish units had mottos or slogans painted or embroidered onto their standards. The only text in evidence is the "GARS" (Gustavus Adolphus Rex Sueciae) on the flags issued during Gustavus lifetime and the "C" or possibly "CRS" used on the flags issued during the reign of his daughter Christina. While the ideal was that a regiment would have a single set of regimental colours this was not strictly enforced and new units raised as replacements or reinforcements may very well get new standards in a diffrent colour than the 'old' companies serving in Germany. There is one set of standards recorded that probably belong to the late TYW period or from the early 1650's, these were issued to the new "double" regiment raised from the same area that provided the Nyland cavalry regiment. While these most likely belonged to the reign of Christina there is no hard evidence that they were carried by a Finnish unit, they saw no use during the Scanian war even though the Finns like all Swedish units were hard pressed to find equipment including standards. (And the black & yellow colours were usually associated with the Vastgota regiment since they were part of the Vastergotland coat of arms.)
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Militia | 16 Feb 2015 11:33 p.m. PST |
Let me disagree with You about under the aka Totta. I consider them exactly the Finnish, moreover to the end of the war in Germany 2/3 of the entire Swedish cavalry included exactly the Finns. |
ochoin | 18 Feb 2015 5:40 p.m. PST |
@ Daniel S I'm curious: what rules do you use? I figure someone with your knowledge base must have the inside track on the better rule sets. |
Daniel S | 19 Feb 2015 3:54 a.m. PST |
Militia, The image you posted showing Tott's company of cuirassiers is from Osprey's "The Army of Gustavus Adolphus 2 Cavalry" which on page 9 has a table showing "Principal Mercenary Cavalry Regiments". There you will find Åke Tott's regiment listed in the section "Raised in Germany before Breitenfeld" with the regiment being recorded as raised in 1630. Origin of Tott's regiment was the single company of Cuirassiers he had raised during the Polish war in the 1620s. The company had a number of Finns but also contained Baltic Germans from present day Latvia & Estonia as well as Prussians recruited from 1627 onwards when the company was campaigning in Royal & East Prussia. In the Summer of 1630 the company went to Germany as part of the Swedish invasion army and late in 1630 Tott who was now General of the Cavalry was given a commission to raise an extra large regiment of enlisted (i.e mercenary) cavalry. Tott's Cuirassier company became the 1st company of the new 12 company regiment and it was joined by another 'old' Swedish-German company from the Polish wars. The remaining 10 companies were Germans recruited in Northern Germany. Now just to confuse modern day wargamers Tott also had a single company of "Lätta Ryttare" ('Light Horsemen'), that company was true 'hackapells', Finnish "Landsryttare" who were counted as part of the regular native Swedish armed forces unlike Tott's mercenary Cuirassiers. However by 1630 this company was actually part of Gustav Horn's regiment of Finnish cavalry and it remained at home in Finland until May 1631 when it sailed to Germany from Åbo/Turku. The Finnish cavalry had not yet achived as firm an organisation as the native Swedish cavalry which by 1630 was organised into 5 regiments each of 8 companies. There were a total of 24 companies of Finnish cavalry by 1630, of these 12 were part of Fieldmarshal Gustav Horn's regiment of cavalry while the remaining 12 were divided into 8 independet companies and one squadron of 4 companies commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel Yxkull. Horn's regiment of Finnish cavalry only existed on paper, it was never used in the field as a unit, instead it's companies were grouped into 3 squadrons led by Lieutenant-Colonels Wunsch, Stålhandske and Ekholt. (Tott's company of Hackapells were part of Ekholts squadron.) It was only in 1634 that the Finnish cavalry was organised into 3 permanent regiments in the same manner as the Swedish native cavalry. moreover to the end of the war in Germany 2/3 of the entire Swedish cavalry included exactly the Finns Not sure what you are trying to say here, after the Södermanland regiment was disbanded in 1634 there were 4 regiments of native Swedish cavalry (32 companies) and 3 regiments of Finnish cavalry (24 companies) making the Finns almost 43% of the native cavalry. (Not 2/3) And both Swedes & Finns were vastly outnumbered by the Germans, at the end of the war in 1648 there were 34 companies of native Swedish cavalry in Germany with a total of 3058 men. But the German cavalry was 357 companies with a total of 17678 men and in additon there were 31 companies of German dragoons with 2085 men. |
Militia | 19 Feb 2015 8:50 p.m. PST |
But the Finnish reenactors at the festival of Tammilaakso: link |
Kadrinazi | 20 Feb 2015 4:31 a.m. PST |
And what reenactors have to do with it? |
Militia | 20 Feb 2015 5:51 a.m. PST |
The comrades! And let's talk about other birth cavalry Gustav Adolf, on their banners and uniforms ( I would be grateful if someone put a modern reconstruction of standards). |