"When were Britain's air defences ready for the Luftwaffe?" Topic

Hi all,

Most people would agree that in the summer of 1940 the British air defence system (Dowding System) effectively denied the Luftwaffe whatever slim chance it may ever have had of forcing Britain into a compromise peace by destroying the RAF (and then possibly the Navy) on the ground.

But when was that system effectively ready? In 1939? Or in 1940?

For example, let us hypothesise that war broke out over Czechoslovakia in 1938. Let us also hypothesise that Hitler turned westwards and somehow crushed France a year earlier than he ultimately did, in 1939.

Might the Luftwaffe, operating in summer 1939 from the same French air bases that it would ultimately use a year later, have had a better chance of smashing the RAF?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Cheers,
redcoat

At least some British fighter pilots appreciated Chamberlain for having postponed Britain's involvement in the Big Scrap for a year. Not so much radar was the issue [in reality, ALL sides had radar, and were keeping it secret each from each], but fighter capability. Had war broken out in 1938 there were serious plans to strip out the guns from the Hawker Fury and send it up with instructions to ram, otherwise they wouldn't be able to catch the German fast bombers. Lots of wargaming suggest the Battle of Britain wasn't critical, that somehow the Royal Navy would still have triumphed even if the RAF hadn't done its heroic bit, but I think this is wilfully to ignore what actually happened to HMS Prince of Wales and Repulse, fighting a technically far-inferior enemy in the South China sea, not so very many months later. Tactical setback leading to Worst defeat in British Military history! I think the book First Light is my source for the non-opinion bits of this contribution.

With Legbiter on this one: 1938/39 would have been touch and go to retain a measure of air superiority over the Channel and Home Counties:
- less attrition of the Luftwaffe by the Armee de l'Air and BAFF in France due to lack of modern aircraft,
- fewer modern monoplane fighters available to the RAF at home, and
- fewer Chain Home radars and much less exercise experience as to how to effectively manage the data provided by them.

In 1938 the Ju.52 was still a front-line Luftwaffe bomber. Gladiators would have had no problem catching them, or the Ju.87s. And the Hurricanes were rolling off the production lines.

All sides had radar research projects, but the real question was how fast and how far a practical early warning network could be deployed. From Wiki, re the British Chain Home system, that covered Great Britain in 1940:

"By 1936 the first five stations were commissioned, and the reporting system for the stations was tested using aircraft from RAF Biggin Hill.[17] The lessons learned and techniques of fighter control evolved were applied directly to the creation of the Dowding system that led operations in the 'Battle of Britain' in 1940. By the outbreak of war in September 1939 there were 21 operational Chain Home stations. After the Battle of France in 1940 the network was expanded to cover the west coast and Northern Ireland. The Chain continued to be expanded throughout the war, and by 1940 it stretched from Orkney in the north to Weymouth in the south. This provided radar coverage for the entire European-facing side of the British Isles, able to detect high-flying targets well over France."

If I read this right, Chain Home was not complete in the summer of 1939, and the lack of a complete functioning radar early warning system might have seriously reduced Fighter Command's efficiency. The most critical sectors of the south and east coasts may have been covered, but the stations were brand new and the crews lacked operational experience.

The Luftwaffe as an anti-shipping force in 1940 was significantly inferior to the Japanese navy and army airforces that sank Repulse and Prince of Wales in 1941. Better training and better torpedoes by far and the Betty, Nell, Val and Kates in the hands of the Japanese aviators was the best of all the early war airforces at naval strike.

The Royal Navy might still have had a brutal time trying to fight in the Channel but in a ships v aircraft fight, the Luftwaffe was very much a second string outfit compared to the Japanese early in the war.

It seems as if someone forgot that the German airforce and army was also evolving during 1938 through 1940. The German army would have suffered casualties invading Czechoslovakia and the Skoda works may have been heavily damaged or destroyed (about 1 out of 3 tanks were Czech when France was invaded). The Germans used 1938 – 1939 time frame to convert their airforce to advanced fighters (BF109 and BF110) and there would be no Spanish training ground (Spanish Civil War) to iron out the fixes.

Germany was at it's high point when it invaded France in 1940 and a 1939 invasion would not have weakened the British or French much but would greatly weakened the Germans. Then again, following diplomatic agreements Poland now invades Germany in 1939 and Germany collapses with a two front war and a one front army.

Many thanks all for your contributions – this is very interesting stuff indeed.

gamershs:

about 1 out of 3 tanks were Czech when France was invaded

Wow. Is that really true?!? That's quite astonishing. Were these Czech tanks (Panzer 38t, I assume?) concentrated together in one or more panzer divisions or were they farmed out across several?

And could we assume the same proportion – one third – of the German tanks involved in the invasion of Poland were also Czech models? Or not?

I think it was closer to 1 in 5, but could be wrong, the majority of tanks in the 6th 7th and 8th Panzer Divisions were Czech. One had Pzr 35t and two 38t. I know that the 7th was equipped with 38t but don't which of the others had which.

Fatman

38T production:

Model: Production Period: Number Produced:
Ausf A May – November 1939 150
Ausf B/C/D January – November 1940 110/110/105
Ausf E/F November 1940 – October 1941 275/250
Ausf S May – December 1941 90
Ausf G October 1941 – June 1942 321

Note: Additional 179 Ausf G chassis were produced but were not completed as tanks.

Full article.
link

6th, 7th and 8th Panzer, 6th had Pz 35(t), the others Pz 38s. iirc all three divisions only had a single regiment of three battalions unlike some of their pals with full panzer brigades of 300+ tanks.

Of the 3465 tanks employed, 143 were Pz 35 and 238 Pz 38.

link

If the war had started a year earlier the Germans would have also been equally unprepared; the first half of 1939 was also critical to their war preparations, and the fact that they got access to Czech equipment and factories essentially for 'free' was a major boon. So I think a Battle of Britain a year earlier, with the Czechs resisting, wouldn't have been all that different in terms of overall military balance. British attempts to defend would have been hampered, but so would have German attempts to wage the campaign.

-Will