"American grenadiers" Topic

I have seen the caps worn by some militia taken on to the Continental establishment very early.
It would be nice to have a very few figures for them. (Hint hint. Heads from King's Mountain? )

But the real issue is why after that normal Continental regiments did not have grenadiers but did have elite companies of light infantry.
Interestingly the proportion of elite companies to normal companies was about the same in both the British and American regiments. The Yanks simply had twice as many LI as the Brits but no grenadiers.

Was the reason because grenadiers were seen as symbols of authoritarian Royal standing armies, while light infantry were very common man republican (small "r")?
Since in the British army the functional difference between LI and grenadiers was non-existent, why not just have LI?

With regards to the British at the time, I think the powers-that-be at Horse Guards were far more inclined to get rid of the light infantry and keep the grenadiers. They didn't really approve of "light bobbery" and rather resented having had to fight an enemy who made the use light troops a necessity.

Could it be that as an army we did not have a "grenadier tradition," so there was no need to carry it forward? Or perhaps we were just happy when 2 or 300 hundred guys showed up, so it was not practical to make special companies. It's a good question.

Were light companies actually regarded as 'elite' at the time of the American Revolution? Didn't the idea that light troops were elite come a bit later?

I only ask because it might help to explain why the Continental regiments had light troops but not grenadiers. Maybe they didn't like the implied elitism in the designation 'grenadier'?

The flank companies were regarded as elite as more was asked and expected from them. Both needed to be more reliable than the hat or center companies – at least in the British army.

As far at the Lights in the American Army – use caution. The establishment for Lights came and went, and came back again. Often when they formed a Light battalion, such as with Maxwell in '77 – it was just picked men, and not necessarily even from Light companies. In fact, I really can't say the Americans used their flank companies the same way (or perhaps even equipt them any differently)until later in the war.

There were some instances of grenadiers formed in Provincial units during the F&I period, but since throwing grenades had gone out of fashion, there was no need for them and the additional costs they incurred, thus there was no history of them the way there was in the British army. Therefore, there was no need of grenadier companies for the Americans.

I tend to side with the no tradition argument and there was more need for light companies than grenadier type troops.

They often performed the same role on the battlefield.

They didn't throw grenades in the FIW either.

Nope. :-) Though they continued to carry a match case on their cartridge box belt. I believe those were put away at some point early during the AWI.

I suspect that the real reason was lack of qualifying service. By the 1770s, it was clear that grenadier companies were no longer just for the biggest/strongest men, but for the most reliable and experienced soldiers in a battalion (although the light company revival in 1771 did provide an opportunity to use appropriate men of shorter stature). American students of the military service would have been aware of that, and there are occasional grenadier companies in the older (and possibly better-funded) pre-war militia corps. However, when the Continental Army was established, for the first two years of the war, enlistments were only for one year after which most recruits had had enough and went home – and those that re-enlisted generally became corporals and sergeants if they were any good at all.

Thus, there were no experienced/reliable soldiers to promote into a grenadier company until the first three-year enlistees of 1777 got into their second, or more likely third year of service. Given that it typically took British soldiers several years' service before they became grenadiers, in all likelihood it was probably only when the first batch of three-year Continentals re-enlisted for another three years that you had men sufficiently reliable and experienced to be "grenadiers".

However, if you want to look more closely, the Continental Army kind of did form grenadiers – the formation and use of the special battalions of "picked men" in the Philadelphia and Monmouth campaign reflect the increasingly common British practice of using grenadiers and light infantry interchangeably as an elite strike force/advance guard, and a general repository for the better officers and men, who had zeal and ability (many such battalions were led by officers whose States could not promote them further within their own Line).

As an illustration of how this process was viewed by the other mainstay of the Rebel forces, one finds certain militia units later in the war being referred to as "grenadiers" because of the amount of service/campaigning they had under their belts (Mercer's battalion of Virginians in the Yorktown campaign had not only long service, but a nucleus of former Continentals).

And of course distinctive uniforms could also have been a problem: where uniforms were scarce, they tended to be issued to NCOs before the rank-and-file. Grenadiers might have been expected to be appropriately dressed.

American soldiers developed a very different style of wearing dead animals on their heads than was fashionable in Europe. Where European soldiers typically wrapped a piece of fur around their heads and stuck a bag on top, Americans preferred to hollow out the entire animal and cram it on, often with the head and bushy tail hanging down for decoration, less often with the little legs still attached.

Where it was more efficient for European soldiers to chop a bear or a sheep up into headgear for a platoon, the American style of animal millinery was impractical with large animals, and American soldiers tended to wear mid-size mammals like raccoons, skunks and large feral cats, for hats.

It should now be obvious why the Continental Army could field no bearskin-hatted grenadier, but instead relied on intrepid sharp-shooting frontier riflemen in coonskin caps as elite troops.

:) good one Zippy…..Daniel Boone was a grenadier yes a big grenadier

Davy, Davy Crockett, King of the Grenadiers!

"Some talk of Davy Crockett
And some of Daniel Boone.
Of Fightin' Daniel Morgan
And rifles by the score!
Fer fighting Limey Redcoats
We're joinin Andy Jackson soon.
Don't talk to me of fightin' men
Lest yer hat is made of coon!"

Interestingly while there as far as I know no formal grenadier companies in the Revolution post-revolution the US Army did have grenadier companies; the 1792 regs specified than an infantry battalion had a company of grenadiers, light infantry or riflemen and the US uniform regs from up to 1827 had specifications for grenadier uniforms – but with wings and a belltop shako with a red plume, not a mitre or bearskin

Different period, but was just reading about Palo Alto and Resaca de Palma. The US infantry by 1846 did have a grenadier company, a light company and eight center compnaies.

I have seen a couple of paintings by Don Troiani of AWI American Grenadiers wearing the Hats that the British Grenadiers wore in the SYW including wings on their shoulders. I don't know how accurate they are though. One was wearing brown coats with yellow facings and another blue coats with red facings.

The unit Doug is referring to is the 26th Continental Regiment of 1776, previously Gerrish's Regiment of the Massachusetts Line, and later the 9th Massachusetts. There was a company outfitted as "grenadiers" under Captain Thomas Mighill, who wore brown uniforms faced buff (not yellow). I'm not aware that this uniform was retained beyond 1776.

The other uniform, blue-faced-red, was worn by a pre-war independent New York militia company commanded by Captain Lasher, who were all grenadiers. Both uniforms are illustrated in the first part of Marko Zlatich's two-volume Osprey MAA on Washington's Army.

Where can the 1792 US Army regulations that specify an infantry battalion has a company of grenadiers, light infantry or riflemen be found?

Or the 1846 ones? Isn't that just before the Mexican American War?

So, zippy is postulating that America was founded by a bunch of skinheads, then? Oh, no. Not good, not good at all. There may not be any recovery from such a tarnishment of reputation. Anyone near zippy know how to go about scalping?! ; )

Skinheads everywhere are demanding an apology. ;^))

"Some talk of Alexander……

Hello 4th SubLegion – that was from a reference I have at home on the US infantry, which included a uniform plate of a sergeant in a grenadier company – I am traveling and away from my library but if you want to send me a PM I will look it up when I get home next week

The Troiani prints are in his book on the American Revolution with a detailed description. These units wore a cloth cap like a FIW grenadier but they were not grenadiers. It was simply what they wore. Troiani says this type of hat was worn by other units as well, but none that were classified as grenadiers.

There is also a famous British period cartoon depicting an American rifleman in a frock coat wearing similar headress. Again not a grenadier.

I am not aware of any designated American grenadier units during the AWI.

There is also a famous British period cartoon depicting an American rifleman in a frock coat wearing similar headress. Again not a grenadier.

I'm pretty sure that's actually meant to be a light infantry cap – much like the one commonly worn in illustrations of Hazen's 2nd Canadian Regiment, or the British "Keppel" style with the chains around the crown. It looks more "grenadierish" in the cartoon because it has been drawn too tall (perhaps also because we're used to seeing light infantry caps with peaks on them, but in the early years mostly they didn't).

As I said in an earlier post, in the later years of the war, one or two militia or State units were referred to as "grenadiers" to show that they were composed of veteran/experienced soldiers.