"Luck of the Dice" Topic

What do you do when you have a run of either "sixes" or "ones".

Do you accept the luck of the dice, whatever the consequences?

Or do you "reroll" the second or third to save the game?

When we used to play fun friendly games we would often either ignore a run of good or bad luck, or even play the wargame over again. We both felt that it was a shame to ruin a good game just because of exceptionally good or bad dice.

However now that we only fight campaign battles we feel we should stick to the dice. All of these games are battles provided by our PBEM campaign, and I post a full battle report so that the players can follow the progress of their battle.

However we both feel that it is a shame to ruin a good wargame, and that there is no enjoyment in winning under such circumstances.

The game that prompted this post ended after just five moves (out of a potential twelve moves). During that time one side had rolled five "ones" for morale saving throw. Being a campaign game that side already had quite a few casualties from previous battles. As a result the tabletop commander declared a retreat to save the campaign player losing his whole army.

Forgive me if I seem blunt, it is not my intention to be, but if I would play a game in which lucky or unlucky die-rolls are so decisive to the outcome, I would start looking for other ruleset.

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
…
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
..
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And—which is more—you'll be a Man, my son!

All part of the game. Some rules handle chance better than others, though there's a lot of personal taste in it.

Keep going. Just had a game where I had to roll for replacements each turn. On average rolls it would have amounted to 48 replacement steps over 24 turns, instead I ended up NEGATIVE 6. Hard to win with that kind of rolling. (24 2d6 rolls, eactly one 7 and one 9 and 5 sixes, all the rest were 5 or below)

That is why I prefer to avoid games with just a few 1D6 dice throws.
Use more of…IE 3 or more D6s or 2D10 or 1D20 for better probability and averaging.
Battles events were not all totally random but a more of bell curve probabilities.

your investment in time doing the activity should be worth something more than luck of few dice rolls!
my 2 cents.

MG

Sometimes you have a sure fire plan to bring about the quick end to the war but then 2 Panzer divisions unexpectedly get in your way.

Sometimes you just get lucky. If the run were to end the evening early, I award the victory to the "lucky" player and then say, "Since it is only 8:00, why don't you re-roll and we shall play on from there."

"Sometimes you eat the bear. Sometimes the bear eats you."
--Herr Henry

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
…
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
..
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And—which is more—you'll be a Man, my son!

That brought a tear to my eye. My parents gave me that poem upon graduating College. Thanks for posting.

Keep going; those games make the best stories years later.

Rick

Die rolls are intended to be decisions made outside the players' control. If you don't accept those decisions you might as well play chess where the pieces do exactly what you want them to and nothing else.

OTOH, I thought it'd be fun to make a computer routine that would take say a 2d6 roll, track the rolls and ensure that all 36 options are rolled before starting over. Then the first roll would be random but you'd be assured that over the course of the game you'd get an even spread of die rolls.

Just keep going and don't worry – sometimes an army collapses before much actual fighting happens it is just one of those things. I take the result and move on, there is always the next battle. It is hardly a reflection on anyone's gaming skills, from time to time it just happens.

Hello thistlebarrow2!

Long time no talk.

I think basileus66 hit the nail on the head and Murvihill polished it up.

It sounds like your system is dice roll dependent. You need to rethink exactly what your doing. Your system should be decided by modifiers that represent the situation at hand. The dice simply add in the elements not represented (a variable). This generally translates to an outcome that is only slightly changed from what would have happened if there was no dice roll.

For a while we had the opposite problem in certain parts of our rules. The dice roll made very little difference as players could stack enough modifiers to insulate them.

How you gauge the impact of the dice rolls in your games is not a simple matter. You need to carefully study all the factors in play and exactly what outcomes will occur. If the dice can dominate the outcome of your game I think you have a serious out of balance problem that only a complete review can rectify. Not an easy task, we just spent 5 years trying to ensure that every dice roll in our game was balanced (along with tons of other rules).

So yes, we are very comfortable with the consequences of our dice rolls, both good and bad. And we have no rerolls!

Best regards,

Glenn

There must always be 10% possibility IN GAMES, that peasants wins and Old Guard loses.

My brief description of the background may have given an impression that my rules are more dice dependent than they actually are.

When a brigade suffers casualties, or when a nearby brigade routs, they have to test for morale. There is a list of plus and minus modifiers for quality, casualties, supports etc. Each brigade then rolls 1D6. 3 or more they pass morale test. 1 or 2 is shaken. Zero or less routs. A full strength, average brigade with supports will always pass the test, even with 10% casualties.

This was a game where the brigades concerned started with casualties from an earlier campaign battle. In addition the morale checks concerned were on those same brigades, plus the run of particularly low dice.

My rules are designed to give fast moving games, with a result within twelve moves. In addition I always wargame with my wife, and we know each other style of wargaming quite well after 40 years. So a larger than normal element of luck is necessary to produce the sort of fast moving games we require. However I don't feel that the whole outcome is in ever determined by the dice alone.

If you wish you can read the rules here. The morale chart is Rule 18
link

Hi There

As Mr Florida said, games where strange things happen at the command of the dice gods are the ones you remember and joke about for years after.

Keep playing and enjoy the ride and tell the tale, and if at the 11th hour luck swings 180 deg you may have something special.

Regards

David F Brown

What basileus said. A set of rules should make a marginal difference but shouldn't produce a complete reversal of fortune – otherwise, as others have said, I'd be looking for a different set of rules. A good die roll routs the enemy, a bad one makes him retreat or recoil, but it doesn't make you retreat.

You are otherwise reliant on luck to win (or not lose), which is not a thoughtful strategy nor one practised by many successful commanders!!

Sometimes the dice do strange things. I tend to let them fall as they may, but have been known to say "OK, that's game, now let's have another go" and restart from mid-battle.

If the game isn't fun it isn't worth playing. Do note that some of the games I have had the most fun playing were games where I lost horribly.

We curse them so often. They never seem to do what we want them to do, but I would not want to play a dice-less wargame…ever.

Dice are sometimes the only chance I have of winning…

Dice are sometimes the only chance I have of winning…

Dave, I had to laugh at your post, cause I'm exactly the opposite. Dice are the bane of my gaming life. I have the honor of rolling seven, yes seven, "ones" on a d6 in a row, in a single turn. I do believe I lost that particular battle rather badly.

Roll a string of 6's = Laugh at my opponents misfortune
Roll a string of 1's = prepare to be laughed at for my misfortune

Simples :-)

Gloat and talk trash.

I do agree that there shouldn't be a 14% chance of complete disaster or complete success based upon a single action. Note also the advice in bold below.

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a flat tire

No one listens until you make a mistake

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. This way, you will be a mile away from them and have their shoes

Don't squat with your spurs on

A closed mouth gathers no feet

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you

If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried

For every action, there is equal and opposite criticism

Never do card tricks for your poker group

Success occurs in private, failure in full view

You don't get smarter as you get older. There's just less stupid stuff left that you haven't already done.

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same….

Great poem about a fascinating character:

link

What is the likelihood of throwing five '1's in a row? One in 7776? Just let it stand. Those kind of odds don't prove anything about a ruleset.

Hello thistlebarrow2!

Okay if your satisfied that your dice charts are balanced then you must accept the consequences. However, don't lose sight that in most cases or games the actual reason for rolling is the direct result of the players actions.

I know of a player who claims to be the worst roller. However, he makes a lot of moves that are very risky. He clearly creates situations where he should lose. His run of bad rolls overshadow his good rolls simply because he creates more bad situations then good ones. Conversely he sees me as a high roller (with dice not money) and completely ignores the fact that I'm constantly trying to put myself in the best possible positions.

I have rolled five 1's in a row and it was very bad news, but I've also rolled six 6's in a row and it was wonderful.
So yes every now and again the odds of good and bad rolls will be beaten, but don't lose sight of the situation and who created it.

Best regards,

Glenn