"Why did the Peninsular War go on for so long? " Topic

There's some similarity in the strategic situation of both Wellington and Washington here. A smaller army, initially not up to standing toe-to-toe with its opponents without a considerable local advantage of some sort, but able to be a thorn in the enemy's side just by continuing to be there. Both rely on irregular forces to whittle down the enemy's strength in peripheral areas. The major difference is that the smaller side has the naval superiority that allows them to evade/outflank the enemy by sea, whereas the enemy has the advantage on land.

Murvihill

IIRC Napoleon did kick the British army off the peninsula while he was there.

Then I suggest you do a little reading on the aftermath of Corunna. I'm sure you will be pleased to find that there was still a British presence in Portugal and Spain. Also there was/is a not unsubstantial, strategic enclave called Gibraltar.

Paul :)

It took so long because it wasn't important enough to any of the main protagonists. It did serve well to keep the other (and perhaps own troops) occupied, because it couldn't be ignored.

What ForeverGAme said. The British crept forward only after Napoleon lost about half a million soldiers in Russia.

What ForeverGAme said. The British crept forward only after Napoleon lost about half a million soldiers in Russia.

Well, no, unless you have quite an unusual definition of crept forward. Portugal was pretty much cleared of the French in 1811, as was Galicia (and some of the Asturias). Estremadura and Andalusia were taken from the French before Napoleon's defeat in Russia.

Whirlwind

Though I mostly agree with your point, remember that Napoleon started to take troops out of Spain between November 1811 and April 1812. The redeployment of the Young Guard division in March 1812, that was operating in Northern Spain against the North Castilian partisans, gave back the initiative to the Spanish volunteers and put on the defensive the French troops in the area -which were unavailable for Marmont when he confronted Wellington in the summer-.

"Murvihill

'IIRC Napoleon did kick the British army off the peninsula while he was there.'

Then I suggest you do a little reading on the aftermath of Corunna. I'm sure you will be pleased to find that there was still a British presence in Portugal and Spain. Also there was/is a not unsubstantial, strategic enclave called Gibraltar.

Paul :)"

My post sounds alot more stupid when you remove all context. My point was that the British' big advantage was that controlling the seas around the peninsula allowed them to choose when and where they engaged the French. Chasing off an army was pointless when they could just land them somewhere else.

How has all context has been removed? The emotive language of Napoleon 'kicking the British army off the Peninsula' says it all! He didn't. The only person to take the British Army to the Peninsula and then take the 'British Army off the Peninsula' was the Duke.

As for the Royal Navy being a big advantage. Lets not forget that Napoleon had on average an almost 4 to 1 advantage in the Peninsula, a land supply rout and almost total occupation of the land mass. Clever manipulation of resources showed just how superior the British were on land and sea and that of the French, woeful.

Paul :)

"The other side of the coin could be why, that part of most powerful army in Europe took six years in trying to kick a tiny army out of the Peninsula, but be beaten and have their country invaded by them?"

This is what I replied to. It is equally emotive to my response. Napoleon's army in Spain was a horse swatting at flies. You can have the final word…

Flies 1 Horse 0

Buuuzzzzzzzzz….

Paul :D

A sad end to a useful thread (well, useful for me, anyway). Thanks all for a lot of interesting viewpoints, that will let me look afresh at this conflict and see if I want to get involved.

It started when I picked up some Spanish infantry, and recently I gained a H&C book on a French victory in Spain. So there may be mileage in it for me.

Anyway – cheers all. Much appreciated.

There have been some very nice Portuguese plastics released recently (line infantry and cacadores), as well.

Emhar/Imex off the top of my head – I will go back to PSR to check

I agree very much with Quiles post. Stating that the British army won the war in Spain sounds like a joke. Just study the whole of it. Wellington was most of the time just hiding in Portugal, and for good reason. The percentage of Imperial troops dedicated to screen him was always very small compared with those dedicated against the perennial Spanish armies, conduct sieges and fight the guerrillas.
One poster above says that Wellington was outnumbered 10 to 1… totally untrue. The French never enjoyed a clear numerical superiority against Wellington as most of their men were employed elsewhere.

I agree very much with Quiles post. Stating that the British army won the war in Spain sounds like a joke.

That's funny, because I thought Quiles' post was a joke. Stating that the British Army didn't play a major part in driving the Imperial forces from Spain sounds like a joke.

Just study the whole of it.

Yes, good idea. We see the massive Spanish victories that sent the French fleeing behind the Pyrenees. Oh, no, wait…

Wellington was most of the time just hiding in Portugal, and for good reason.

Well if you mean by "most of the time" one year i.e. Massena's invasion then this sentence might work. I do like it when people say that a general who fought and won 20-odd sieges and battles in 6 years was 'hiding'. Nice.

The percentage of Imperial troops dedicated to screen him was always very small compared with those dedicated against the perennial Spanish armies, conduct sieges and fight the guerrillas.

That is just artful. At all times the French attempted to concentrate their largest forces against Wellington.

One poster above says that Wellington was outnumbered 10 to 1… totally untrue. The French never enjoyed a clear numerical superiority against Wellington as most of their men were employed elsewhere.

It is perfectly true if in relation to the question "why didn't Wellington clear the French from Spain easily in a short period of time?" Because, throughout Spain, there were hundreds of thousands of Imperial troops. Therefore Spain had to be liberated region by region instead. but thankfully, we now know that he was wasting his time, because the Spanish forces – with such triumphs as Ocana, Saguntum, Medellin, Ucles – were beating the French anyway.

My goodness. Wellington and the British Army are never going to be forgiven for their part in winning the Peninsular War, are they?

Surprised that no one mentioned the biggest slowdown for the French…no unity of command and a somewhat delusional Napoleon trying to control from Paris or even further. Messengers required huge escorts just to make it through pacified country. Napoleon always worried that a marshal would gain too much prestige and be a potential rival to grant overall command.

Wellington had somewhat the same problem in that the Juntas were far from unified in command/response and even British forces such as those in Sicily brought to fight on the south coast were not able to be coordinated with very well. Many times the juntas started to look at the British with a suspicion towards motive.Spanish forces usually lacked the logistical/organization base to achieve much offensively, even if willing.

As for strategy, Wellington always had to move forward with restraint, he always feared that a separate peace with Austria or Russia would see larger armies return back into theater which he and the Spanish would be unable to deal with. Hindsight did not exist in 1811 or even 1812. Logistics was still tough, but lack unity of command was probably more of a problem, and both were somwhat outside of Wellington's power to address.

Wellington was more than cognizant of the role the Spanish forces played in the overall victory. Not just for holding huge amounts of the French in check or occupation and thus not fighting him but also for his intelligence operations which were always better since French recon/communications was hampered by guerrillas while his own augmented by the same.

Spanish forces interestingly enough were not to be part of the 1814 invasion of France. Fear of Spanish reprisals against French civilians causing them to turn to partisan activities was something to be avoided. As it was the French civilians were more than willing to sell supplies to invading British forces.

Just to add to a couple Whirlwind's points.

joaquin99

Just study the whole of it.

What have you read of said Campaign? Care to tell us the titles?

One poster above says that Wellington was outnumbered 10 to 1… totally untrue.

Read that quote again!

On the continent, I would say 15 to 1.

During the Corunna Campaign, Napoleon alone was at the head of over 120,000 men chasing Moore and his barely 30,000.

At It's height, The French army in the Peninsular was 360,000 strong compared to the Dukes 50,000

Paul :)