"WW2 Post Apocalypse" Topic

I've had an idea for a small game, and would love some advice where to start. I should add a caveat here that I'm not a historical gamer (other than a bit of pulp) as I find it restrictive – strict historical accuracy isn't my main concern.

So basically it's post apocalypse WW2. The war didn't end, it continued and continued, more nuclear weapons were used (by both sides) and the the survivors now fight in a strange mix of continued idealism (I'm thinking that all high commandand and leadership has collapsed, with groups working as they see fit) and basic survival. Warbands of deserted units, remaining civilians and any other ideas (I'm thinking Nazi scientists eager to continue their secret reasarch, irradiated creatures.. loads of good stuff). It can also incorporate some ideas from Metro 2022, but with a postwar level of tech.

So, is there anything like this setting out there? Any novels or books for ideas?

In terms of minis I'll be using 20mm I think – that way I can use 1/72 plastic vehicle kits for wrecked vehicle carcasses – I can see a battlefield arrayed like a tank graveyard.

Appreciate any thoughts.

The 1936 film `Things to Come` springs to mind!
There`s a lot of stuff in the earlier part of the film and in the book that might be a bit of an inspiration.
youtube.com/watch?v=wemRBFFbhKI
This bit and the following segment particularly!
youtube.com/watch?v=AaTP6FawLgU&list=PL6BC40C3BA8B6430C&index=2[/url

If high command and leadership has collapsed, I imagine the soldiers are no longer part of an army, but are more like free companies. link

Have you looked at Dust?

dust-tactics.com

Also check out Warfare in the Age of Madness:

link

While it's current incarnation takes place around 2066 it was originally designed using the WWII vehicles/men they had.

It is company level and "looks" a lot like AK-47.

I may be just what you're looking for.

Tim

Thanks, free companies is actually very close to my thoughts – I'm also envisaging some being still very driven by the pre-apocalypse (i.e. wartime) ideology. With everything gone or destroyed you might argue what's the point, but maybe nazi-bashing is all a last surviving group of paras have left.

I'll read more into DUST, some it of it sounds pinchable. I'm not so keen on the idea of tech advancing though.

You might also look into Weird War 2, not a book but a genre. The scientists get all pulpy (mechs, electro-tech, etc.) and start trying to harness the forces of the occult / bio-research (zombies, skeletons, werewolves, etc).
Hellboy might offer some inspiration as well as Mutant Chronicles fluff (I think there was a movie).

Thanks – I think I'm set for rules – I'm a big fan of FiveCore (Five men in Normandy, 5 Parsecs from home etc.) as I like the way it plays for small skirmishes so I'll likely stick with that, it's more setting ideas I'm after.

Something that does appeal to me is that I can pinch things from other post-apocalypse and adapt them. I've got some CP Miniatures armed clergy on the way (because I wanted to paint them!) and I can readily see them defending their chapel against a nazi scientist that wants to dig up all the corpses. Or even better, cannibals!!!

I'd backdate the Twilight 2000 premise:Your group got the last recall order stating that any intact units should try to get to a port to sail home(if Allied), regroup in the National Redoubt(if German, for possible transport to Antarctica or the Moon)or find a armored train to get home and rebuild(if Russian).
Mixed motorized group, 1/3rd afv's, 2/3rds 'Red Ball Express' gypsy caravans, bridges/fords problematic, fuel, petrol,ammo a constant problem, side quests for special problems/loot/personages/gear/vehicles, intermittent air activity, riverine barge traffic(FlakLighters!!), mined areas, early helicopter gunships.

Other Stuff-Zombie Panzer Zug(Ghouls from Fallout?), Bats Out Of Hell(Vampyr RaketenJagers/Rocketeers), Haunted Tanks, delusional higher headquarters commandeering anything that moves, refugee columns, Last of the Rich and Famous Tag-a-Longs, Bob Hope's Troop, Art/Culture rescues and so on.

Allied-get to Tangier for the Last Liberty ship-in fact, you could start traveling to Antwerp and go from port to port to find a ship.
German/Axis-breakout of Festung Berlin to escort Der Fuhrer's Brain to the Alpine Fortress or to Kiel for Das Boot transport.
Russian-put together a armored train/moto-cavalry unit to pursue both. Either to defect or capture.
Rad areas, toxic areas, beserk weather tampering, rat/bug hordes, mutated flora/fauna/humans, bridge crossings a la 'Sorceror' film, Mutant Lippazan Stallions and a confused Imperial Japanese Expeditionary Force.

Also go to Alternate History.com, sign up, go to non-political chat board, seek out threads on alternate and speculative tanks/weapons/aircraft/ships/uniforms etc. They have a great group doing mix 'n match afv's(Sherman turrets on PZIV chassis-great illustrations.

I was thinking along the same lines. I'd try to get my guys to a port and home. It could make a pretty good campaign game.

Yeah my first thought was Twilight1940. You can find scans of the original, out of print, boxed set on sites such as Scribd which would let you read the background fluff.

Fatman

Just realised that I should point out that the scans are of T2K not Twilight1940 which doesn't exsist….yet.

Fatman

The Fallout series of games sounds very close to what you want: the technology and culture are all of an optimistic (?) 1950s feel.

The fluff for the board game Nuklear Winter '68 is very cool and it might suit your purposes as well: link

I love Fallout, but I specifically want it to be ww2(ish) – partly for the miniatures and partly because I've got this fluff idea I can't let go of – bands of roving soldiers, desperate nazi scientists, a scruffy bunch of civilians turned to cannibalism, brits marooned in the ruins of France after the bombs fell, with no Britain left to go home to. Lovely.

I will be knicking a chunk of Fallout stuff though.

Along with the other good ideas here, I'd suggest taking a look at some of Ken Hite's Suppressed Transmission books (part of the GURPS line, available as pdfs now), and researching secret underground Nazi bases. Before the History Channel made them a fad, there were real rumours about them and they showed up in fiction too. IIRC one of Clive Cussler's early Dirk Pitt novels ended with Pitt finding one full of untouched vehicles, so that would be a holy grail sort of objective for all of your factions.

Don't forget those ocean-going 'Milch Cow' cargo U-Boote conversions, packed with art treasures, wine cellars and mistresses.:)
A Fallout-esque beginning would be like having your players start out as escaped/abandoned POW's where they have to scrounge for everything.
Or a aircrew that bailed out of a bomber and has to get back on their own.
Or a OSS/SOE escorting defecting scientists through the RuinLands-npc commander could be Christopher Lee.:)

"Ring of red" console game for playstation 2.

link

Definitely look to DUST for minis and some vehicles. I've bought a bunch of DUST stuff on sale from Miniatures Market to use for my Savage Fallout game. Love this idea. Please let us know where you go with it.

Thanks, there's been some great suggestions here. I'm going to work on converting some partisans into a group of survivors, then some deserted soldiers that I want to research the background of a bit more. I love the abandoned POW idea, its stolen!

I cooked up a timeline/scenario for a very similar situation. I had the Korean war go hot instead of an extended WWII.
A quick timeline,
Timeline
Korea the spring of 1950, escalating border conflicts increase. Finally on June 25, 1950 North Korea invades South Korea. The first significant involvement of the U.S. military was on July 5. Task force Smith part of the 24th Infantry division based in Japan engaged the North Korean. They were soundly defeated. This was only the beginning. The ill equipped American forces were pushed back south. By August the American had been pushed back to the area around the city of Pusan. I wasn't till September that coalition (U.N.) had landed significant reinforcements of men and equipment. It was then that they launched a counterattack. On September 15 General MacArthur launched his master stroke. The invasion of Incheon. This severed supply lines entrapping the North Koreans. Of the 30,000 NK troops only about 25,000 made it back across the border. By October 8th U.N. Troops spearheaded by the Americans had moved past the 38th parallel. By the end of October the North Korean army was rapidly disintegrating. The Chinese concerned that the U.N. would not stop at the Yalu river, invaded making contact with U.N. forces in November 1, 1950. The Chinese lacking air support and armor swarmed U.N. forces with human wave attacks. Supported by little more than small caliber mortars (60-80mm). They pushed the U.N. forces back out of North Korea.
On April 5, 1951 with intelligence showing a build up of new Chinese forces on the border. The authorization to deploy nuclear weapons was given. On April 7, 1951 targets in North Korea, and China are bombed with atomic weapons. This sets off a brutal chain of events, April 10th, the Soviets in support of the North Koreans attack U.N. targets with atomic weapons.
Tensions rise between the Soviet Union and the West. Till finally the point of no return is met, the cold war turns hot. April 13th both the Soviets and NATO launch their nuclear bombers. About half of each forces bombers were shot down before they reached their targets. But targets were reached, leaving many cities and military facilities on both sides radioactive centers of destruction.
The global exchange also introduced many conventional attacks. On April 15th Soviets take Berlin, and drive into Germany. They have been stopped so far by the combined British, French, Spanish, and Americans. The Russian offensive stalling at the Rhine river. But the lack of supplies, and the disruption of supply lines by atomic strikes on both sides has been the real factor in the current stalemate.
The Chinese as well as lending a hand in Korea, have launched their own invasion of conquest. A bid to reclaim Taiwan. On April 20th supported by a soviet atomic attack on the American Seventh Fleet in the Taiwanese Strait, the Chinese invade Taiwan.
The Israelis are attacked once again by an Arab coalition. The second Arab Israeli war began on April 18th. Taking advantage of the worlds eyes focused elsewhere. While the Arabs are slightly better organized and prepared on this invasion, the IDF is holding its own. It has ground to a stalemate for the moment. But it is a volatile situation waiting to explode again on a new Arab offensive.
On the American home front various groups took advantage of the lack of government and confusion to take control of towns and small areas. Groups such as the Communist Party of the United States of America, National Renaissance Party (Neo-Fascists), various other militias and individuals carving out their own fiefdoms. The remnants of the United States government has declared martial law.

This is fantastic, some great ideas in there.

I wonder if anyone that knows the history of the time better than I could help me – where is the best setting for this to allow the best mix of 'types' of groups.

Bear in my mind I'm not aiming for centralised governments anymore – I like a lot of what skippy0001 said above, but I suppose I'm aiming for after that, the remnants. The war is definitely over. Various groups, gangs and warbands are the scale I'm now talking about.

I was thinking of it being in part of Germany, working under the proviso that in this scenario most of Europes cities have been atom bombed.

I'm working with the idea that secretly the germans had developed an atom bomb – a REALLY powerful atom bomb and as the war turned to it's final stages and the germans knew they had lost they let rip with the whole stockpile they'd built up, effectively creating a nuclear wasteland (Fallout style) of most of the European continent (including western Russia). Most people died.

So from there, where (as in what country/area) might a group of soldiers have survived, that might mean they also encounter (for example) some surviving civilians, some other surviving soldiers (maybe a group from mixed countries who've found each other), escaped POW's, a group of civilians who've formed some sort of ideological militia (perhaps a communist village), underground german scientists bent on continuing their research in the ruined world (or dabbling in necromancy to revive their nazi masters).

Is somewhere in western Germany best?

You basic idea has been playing in my head.

But instead of the Germans making the amazing industrial advance to produce Atomic bombs, what if the Trinity test had resulted in a very different result:

From Wiki:
link

"Enrico Fermi offered to take wagers among the top physicists and military present on whether the atmosphere
would ignite, and if so whether it would destroy just the state, or incinerate the entire planet.[73] This
last result had been previously calculated by Bethe to be almost impossible."

That is "almost impossible."

If it had set off a chain-reaction in the atmosphere and suddenly and without warning ended human civilization. Imagine small groups of survivors trying to piece together an explanation as to what had happened.

Logically Australia and the surrounding area would be least effected, but if you want to include a wider selection of WWII gear, a setting centered on Switzerland might work well. A culture of isolationists and survivalist fan out from waring cantons to discover a devastated world. As there is no need to create any alternative history to explain the event, every thing is exactly as it was on July 16, 1945.

Fermi never collects his winnings!

Thanks, that's a great idea to work with.

That allows me to look at what/who was in Switzerland and the surrounding area and go from there.

The trouble I'm having is that I only have a vague knowledge of WW2 specifics beyond my school days, so focusing this concept down is tricky.

I really like the idea of taking some later war winter Germans, sticking various heads on and doing the same with some other troop bodies.

Logically, if groups banded together, some might have been from different nations, some might have been civilians who have picked over the bodies for equipment and clothing. A real rag tag bunch.

A good place to start to learn about the possibilities would be:
link

The Atomic era is after the German defeat, but piles of weapons were are around Europe. And the Western Forces are beginning to eye the Russian with suspicion.

Switzerland was rather well armed at the household/town level. You would still have some hold out Fascists all around (Germany, France, Italy, Austria) as well as Communist militant groups. Spain would be under the remaining Fascist (Franco). Greece would be in its civil-war.

Scattered Allied forces (Americans, British, Free French) would be displaced in lands they did not know. Russians as well would be spread well into much of Europe. So, you might encounter almost any nationality with a wide range of political leanings. But one can imagine how an isolated squad or platoon of US troops might react if a world wide event left them totally disconnected to any command or word from the US.

It doesn't have to be Atomic. Instead of fission or the atmosphere igniting, why not F5+ MutaGenic Vortices being generated at the point of impact of detonation-the theories were off and generated a different kind of energy. It also affected the weather, that screws up one side having constant air superiority and scatters ships at sea with cyclones, hurricanes and tidal waves.
The path of a vortex can deposit mutagens which affect flora and fauna ia a Forced Evolutionary Virus(Fallout game). It would also delineate zones and wide No Man's Land crisscrossing the countries.

Don't you dare say 'Panzernado!'…..

By Jove I think I've got it!

April 22nd 1945. Hitler is holed up in the Fürherbunker. He becomes convinced that SS-General Felix Steiner is not going to carry out the decisive action he had ordered with the army-detachment assigned to the SS-Genral.

(Now this is where we diverge)

Declaring the war lost, Hitler decides that now is the time for his failsafe. The Nazi's being a death cult at the core, Hitler had secretly had his greatest minds, and an incredible amount of resources (possibly a self destructive amour of resources) sunk into a devastating back up for the eventuality of the war turning against them.

Much has been said of a secret Nazi moon base – a potential HQ, weapons development lab or bolt hole for the high command – but the reality was far worse.

Transmitting from the Fürherbunker to the receivers on Mars, Mondbombe Ein whirred into action. A devastating chain of explosions ripped across the facing surface of the moon, splitting away huge chunks of rock that hurtled towards the surface of the earth. In all, there were 17 major impacts, all roughly the equivalent of the Tsar Bomba or greater. Signifanct portions of the planet were flattened. Fires raged for weeks and the ash that entered the atmosphere blacked out the sun for months. Most perished.

As the skies slowly cleared, survivors began to emerge – city dwelling survivors picked amongst the frozen ruins of civilisation for whatever they could scavenge, roaming bands of dazed and disorientated soldiers – some being the tiniest remnants of entire divisions, hoping futiley to find answers and orders in a foreign, unfamiliar land, others simply armed men who had run into other armed men and decided that two guns pointing at a shared enemy was better than two guns pointing at each other. Amongst he shattered cities and scorched forests they find bands of ideologically determined Nazis, clinging to their hatred hunting armed groups of POW's, determined to take revenge. The Nazi's other, less destructive experiments walk the dark corners of the earth, the secretive scientists who birthed them hoping for some desperate breakthrough.

The year is 1954, 9 years since the rocks fell and the world is a shattered reflection of its former self. Who could have known the war was but the beginning of humanity's darkest hours.

So that's the setting, I think it works! It gives me scope for really shattered earth – very post apocalypse stuff, some weird war and some 'a-bit' post apocalypse stuff – depending on how far the particular setting is from the impact sites.

Now, time to make some models!

The sentence about 'receivers on Mars' should say 'receivers on the moon'. Durp.

Read the book, Final Blackout, by L. Ron Hubbard.

In the vain of this thread, and I see it has already been mentioned, I am working on two HotT armies based on he movie "Things to Come". One is the 1940 army which will fight my Red Skull German army, and the other is the 1960 army under "The Boss" which will fight either aliens or zombies or both.

Terry

Hmm, I must admit, there's an attractive fortune in conversion possibilities in this concept. I even wonder about using the re-released Airfix 1/32 multi-part kits as the basis for rag-tag alliances of Allied and Axis soldiers, sharing equipment and weapons… In theory, there would eventually be little to separate the groups, appearance-wise at least.