"* What would you do?????" Topic

Recently, I won and paid for a lot of (128) painted 25mm figures on eBay. They arrived in the mail yesterday.

The auction posting had about six generic photograph's that did not really show any individual detail of the individual figures. The seller rated them as an 8+ on a scale of 1 to 10. He did not state exactly what figure rating scale he was using. Upon examination of these figures and using the G.A.J.O. Rating Scale, they are in reality about a (5).

Also, the seller stated that (5 or 6) figures were missing bayonets (they are 18th Century, Horse and Musket era infantry). In fact (18) figures are broken and about that many more have bent muskets, spears, etc. that will need to be carefully straighted and touched-up with paint.

I was the only bidder and got them for his low, opening bid/price. However, the seller really over-rated them incorrectly. Selling me something that was falsely described. Either he is blind, psychotic, ingnorant or a lier for listing them at an 8+ level and more damaged than was stated.

The seller replied to me by saying what a great price I got them for. He really did not address the fact of not describing correctly, many figures damaged. I forgot to add, his count was short by two painted figures.
Needless to say, I am furious about this. However, I would like to know how would you respond if you were in my shoes?
Thanks much!
Tom Semian
Avalon, Pa. 15202

Perhaps 1 was high, and 10 was low.

I'd contact the seller to see if you can return them, but since he had pics on the auction, even though not closeups, you may be out of luck.

Worth a try though.

If not, try contacting eBay/Paypal. Hopefully, you paid with the latter, so you might have some negotiating leverage for a refund, depending upon their policies, and his desire to keep a good trader rating, assuming he has one.

Ratings are pretty subjective though.

Best of luck, and buyers beware.

I think that's what feedback is for.

Rating is perhaps subjective, but numbers aren't. If you had a problem with the detail of the photos on the auction, you should have emailed the seller to ask for better ones.

So let's leave aside the rating, and focus on the numbers of broken figures and total figures promised, which makes your case stronger, I think.

But even before all that, what do you want?

Do you want to return the figures because they are not up to your standard?

Do you want a discount from the seller?

Or do you think that all things considered, it's still good value for money and that the figures are salvageable?

If it was me, I'd evaluate them on the basis of what would I have been willing to pay for them (if anything) had I known the actual quantity, condition and painting standard. If it was still a good deal/not much more than I'd have wanted to pay then I'd just leave appropriate feedback and take it on the chin – there is a big hassle factor in taking things further. (I don't have much luck buying painted figures on eBay as the photos are nearly always better than real life, but find I can usually re-sell them on a break even basis.)

If it's on eBay, if you don't want then and want a full refund then just open a case and, as the purchaser, eBay will almost always side with you. It seems to be their default position.

If you want to keep them, then the Seller may offer a partial refund if you point out that you'll return for a full refund otherwise (at least, if he's wise to eBay's typical approach to these sorts of disputes).

Ebay is more 'caveat venditor' these days.

I don't know how you paid, but if through paypal enter a dispute.

How much did you pay for them? If you got them cheaply is it worth the hassle of a claim?

The seller posted photos, he will argue that you could see what you were buying and that the damage occurred in transit.

Being short on figures is harder to wriggle out of, so a partial refund is in order for that.

I have had similar situations in the past, I now only buy painted figures if they are clearly visible in photos, when I sell, I always have full, close up pics so potential buyers can see what they are getting.

Good luck resolving this one.

On the perceived quality of the painting, I don't think you have a case of any kind. I doubt Ebay has any kind of policy regarding that.

On the 2 figures missing and 18 rather than 6 figures with problems – sounds like you have a valid case for a PP dispute.

Tom,

Was the price that good? (as in less than the figure would cost unpainted).

Do you want to keep the figures?

If no, I would also go on the damage/missing figure angle as a complaint.

Let the seller know your plans before starting the process to allow him to make it right first.

You need to come up with what will make this right for you.

What do you want?

As noted above, I don't think you have much to go on regarding painting quality. You need to hang your hat on damaged and missing figs. What would make the deal "right" for you?

consider how they were packaged for shipment. Are the broken bayonets in the box? Could the breakage and bending occurred during shipping? If so then just focus on the missing figures in any complaint.

You had pics for the paint job so can'take really complain about that, but the broken figs and missing figs is a legit complaint. But hey, it's ebay so you can twist the arm of sellers with little or no reprecussions.

AFAIK if you want a refund, you'll have to pay to ship them back. Sometimes the cost difference is not worth the hassle. I've been down this road a couple times, buying smoke-ridden things. Not worth the hassle/cost to start a complaint and return, so they just went in the dumpster. I roll with the punches, as a buyer and seller, figuring it all evens out eventually. I also do not leave negatives--I just don't leave anything. BTW I just got burned on ShopGoodwill.com, and they told me "oh well." Ergh.

I'm curious what you paid and the shipping.

I agree with others, if the price is that good, then is it really worth the hassle. For example, the best price you will get for new metal is about $1 USD per figure.

So far, I thank everybody for their opinions and feedback. To me, it does not really matter if the the cost that I paid for these figures is was fair or not.

What does matter to me is:
* They were stated to be painted to a high level and were not.
* Because of faulty packing quite a few are damaged/broken. Even though insured, the U.S.Post Office should not be held responcible for somebody's poor packing.

Lastly, I am getting a bit fed-up with sellers who think that posting photo's is like looking at it in the flesh. As a consumer, I am tired of being disappointed many times more that being happy about buying painted figures.

Prior to even posting this topic, I had decided that I am going to do everything legally possible to this fellow and others like him. Consumers should not be expected to be treated in this fashion.

As for that gray area of "Figure Painting Skill Rating"---I think that when somebody states that their figures are painted to a level of "8+" on a scale of (1 through 10", the figures in question should be really nicely painted, not painted to an average level. Anyone who can not get it right is either an idiot, cheat or psychotic. Perhaps a bit of all three. I should not be expected to need to hire a lawyer to clarify the purchase. Nor should anybody else.

Sincerely,
Tom Semian
Avalon, Pa. 15202

Was the price so low as to warrant the risk with a vague description and no clear photos of the minis themselves? It sounds like you kinda walked right into this one. Aside from the number of minis you probably have no grounds to stand on in regards to the paint job. You should have asked for better photos. When I was buying minis to flesh out a 40k army for my son I won a couple of auctions that were cheap enough that if I didn't like the minis, I was just going to strip and repaint them. The auctions that weren't cheap enough though I made sure I understood what I was getting.

File a paypal dispute.

Without more information (cost, a photo etc) I suspect any further advice would be just a guess. You should file a complaint because that seems to be what you want to do.

In the future, if you find a deal that seems to be too good to be true, that is because there is probably a hitch in there somewhere.

Lastly, I am getting a bit fed-up with sellers who think that posting photo's is like looking at it in the flesh. As a consumer, I am tired of being disappointed many times more that being happy about buying painted figures.

As far as the quality of the paint job you don't have a leg to stand on. Not only is "quality" subjective but you have stated you are well aware that sellers overstate the "quality" of paint jobs.

As has been stated, your best bet is "quantity" and "broken pieces". I'm not sure how e-bay handles these things as regard to you "proving" that the items where improperly packaged and that you were shorted pieces. "DeltaBravo" seems to think they will "automatically" side with you.

And again, what do you want? Return and refund (you'll have to pay the shipping costs)? Prorated refund based on broken/missing pieces?

Open a dispute with ebay. If you get the item and it is not as described i.e. more broken and figures missing they will side with you but you need to point that out.

Ignore the painting.

As far as I am aware now return shipping is also covered via ebay policies.

I have returned items that were crammed into a box and damaged all to hell. Turns out the seller had a history of shipping damaged goods and the fact that they were not battlefront minis but Command decision was enough for ebay to say not as described and issue a refund.

On a couple of other occasions I have had a partial refund and in retrospect I think I would have been happier returning them.

David

Tom –

I think there are two issues here.

1) You are ed off because you got burned by this seller – and rightfully so!

2) You received damaged goods.

As for the first issue, I think you may want to consider your return on time investment. The seller did post pictures. If they were unclear, I would have asked for better ones especially since you stated you had this issue with other sellers. In the eBay world you would have no leg to stand on as others pointed out. My advice here is as much as it es you off, let it go. Spend that energy on a project.

Pertaining to the damaged goods, you absolutely have a leg to stand on and eBay will totally support you if you open a case with them. I would not state anything about packaging because again, that can be subjective. I would just state that what you got didn't match the pictures and there were numerous additional broken pieces above and beyond what was stated.

Part B will be what do you want to do after opening a case. Do you want your money back? If so be prepared to pay return shipping charges unless he has stated in the auction return policy section that he will pay. Once you factor that in, is it worth it to return the figures or are you better off repairing or repainting them? Maybe the best thing is to keep them and ask for a partial refund. Be prepared for the buyer to refuse that though because they know you will have to pay return shipping to get your refund. So factor that into any agreement you can reach with the seller.

Good Luck!

Have a coffee and relax, it's nothing worth going postal over.

* Because of faulty packing quite a few are damaged/broken. Even though insured, the U.S.Post Office should not be held responcible for somebody's poor packing.

Are you sure about that? The New Postmaster stepped on a Christmas gift package (shoe-mark, indentation) and then claimed it showed up that way (which is nonsense because the Atlanta distributing center is very vigilant in over-using the official Damaged stamp for envelopes, magazines and packages). It wasn't a museum-quality stabilized package (foam supports and all), but the novelty dog treats would have survived normal shipping had the New Postmaster demonstrated some basic competency. The USPS is incredibly fast and efficient, but they do have some bad eggs.

Paint quality is subjective and you got to see photos. Most sellers will give you a better photo if you want one. Still missing figures are an issue and you deserve a refund for any that are missing and a partial refund for damaged figures. Decide what you want done about it and then contact the seller to see what he will do about it. Contact PP/eBay to see if they will make it right is he does not.
Leave carefully worded and precise, unemotional feedback.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Maybe ebay isn't your cup of tea. If you trust anyone's rating without an abundance of clear pictures then that's really on you.