""Cross of Iron," Best WW2 Movie???" Topic

Oh and wasn't "The Bridge" good too? A B&W German film about Hitler Youth holding a bridge?

SPR = Saving Private Ryan

Anyone seen "to be or not to be" by Lubitsh?...
One gets to see A.H, this movie is a killer.

If forced to pick just one WW2 film as a favourite, mine would be 'The Cruel Sea'.

I quite liked the pianist.

Watching SPR I was just too frequently distracted by the illogical bits to really enjoy it. You know, like....
So this is worth doing, but they're only sending a token force to do it?

They're assaulting that position... with just 6 men.....
Because?

They read the script. That's the only reason they could know there's only one machine gun and a couple of guys manning it.

I enjoyed cross of iron. A lot of nasty nazis got blown up and that's always good.

Band of Brothers, yep good.

That stalingrad one was quite good but a bit depressing. They all die...

Never as keen on naval or flying stuff.

Naval? My wife and I just watched "The Enemy Below" yesterday. This was a 1957 movie about an American Buckley class DE hunting a Type VII U-boat. It starred Robert Mitchum and Curt Jurgens. This movie really wasn't bad right up until the last scenes when the U-boat surfaces and then it gets a bit far-fetched. Seeing Curt Jurgens as the U-boat Captain was worth it though...

Then you have "Das Boot". Well, I sort of have this thing about submarine movies...

And what about in the air too...Memphis Belle, 633 Squadron, Dambusters et al...

FYI, in regards to "The Winter War," it's often commented that this is one of the most ACCURATE war movies around. AFAIK all equipment is authentic, from the captured T-26s to the DT machine guns. I thought it was too long in certain places, and since its subtitled all in Finnish, it was harder for me to enjoy compared to German movies (I know a little German so I can usually wing it and still get the story).

I thought Cross of Iron was OK. It's a little dated compared to modern war movies, but the director should get some credit for using REAL T-34s (even if they were -34/85s) during the era of Cheap SPanish Army Panzers. There were some real "???" moments, which I won't go into here since this is a family board (but if you've seen it you probably know EXACTLY what I'm talking about!).

I really liked SPR, which I think is a real turning point with regards to war movies...one that is at the same time both gritty and realistic and NOT pessimistic (compared to the "realistic" war movies of the past, which seemed preoccupied with Vietnam). Sure there were some parts that didn't make sense, but then for most people it was showing WWII in film in a way that it hadn't really been shown before...

2nd the miniseries "Band of Brothers" too. Probably my favorite and most watched. Absolutely loved "The Crossroads" episode, from both a film appreciation perspective as well as action. "Battleground" is also an absolute must-see...acual WWII equipment (even if its just an M18 Hellcat), and different for movies of the time in its attempt to show war in a realistic, non-heroic fashion.

And to head off any other comments, "Battle of the Bulge" was the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked. There.

I watched it, but over all I thought it was rather dull.

Sorry, I just wasn't that thrilled.

As for Saving Private Ryan, I though the mini-series 'Band of Brothers' was much better.

Hello Tim,

Winter War is a based on a novel that the story of a few individuals called up to join a particular reserve company that was mobilized when the Soviets invaded in the winter of 1939/40.

The film follows the pattern of many "Platoon" type movies.
There are the usual back-stories (not over much IMHO), scenes of male-bonding/camaraderie during lulls in the fighting, and a fairly large number of very sharp fighting sequences, including some that do an impressive job showing the effects of artillery bombardment on soldiers of both sides.

The movies does a excellent job depicting the (understated) élan of the dwindling Finnish company as it continued to contend against amazing odds with little reinforcements/replacements.

Some highlights in terms of battle scenes: nice panning shots of Soviet infantry companies attacking out of a treeline across a snowy valley alongside T-26s (even a flamethrowing version) towards a thinly held Finnish trenchline; and a Finnish ski company briskly counterattacking a bunker strongpoint that had been captured by the Soviets during the night. (Hope this isn't a spoiler)

There is very little triumphalism in this film and the Soviets are not made look inhuman or subhuman, just poorly led (as they had been in real lfie). The ending is somewhat surreal .... but it makes the point the author/director is trying to make.

The hardware used in the film seems very authentic to me: correct marks of the T-26 used by Soviets, (Czech) Bofors 37mm AT gun and Suomi smgs etcs. used by the Finns. The uniforms are likewise well done. I suspect that some re-enactor groups helped out in this film. It's definitely worth checking out just for the uniforms and hardware alone although the film itself is worth watching (and in my case rewatching several times).

Hello Tim,

Winter War is a based on a novel that the story of a few individuals called up to join a particular reserve company that was mobilized when the Soviets invaded in the winter of 1939/40.

The film follows the pattern of many "Platoon" type movies.
There are the usual back-stories (not over much IMHO), scenes of male-bonding/camaraderie during lulls in the fighting, and a fairly large number of very sharp fighting sequences, including some that do an impressive job showing the effects of artillery bombardment on soldiers of both sides.

The movies does a excellent job depicting the (understated) élan of the dwindling Finnish company as it continued to contend against amazing odds with little reinforcements/replacements.

Some highlights in terms of battle scenes: nice panning shots of Soviet infantry companies attacking out of a treeline across a snowy valley alongside T-26s (even a flamethrowing version) towards a thinly held Finnish trenchline; and a Finnish ski company briskly counterattacking a bunker strongpoint that had been captured by the Soviets during the night. (Hope this isn't a spoiler)

There is very little triumphalism in this film and the Soviets are not made look inhuman or subhuman, just poorly led (as they had been in real lfie). The ending is somewhat surreal .... but it makes the point the author/director is trying to make.

The hardware used in the film seems very authentic to me: correct marks of the T-26 used by Soviets, (Czech) Bofors 37mm AT gun and Suomi smgs etcs. used by the Finns. The uniforms are likewise well done. I suspect that some re-enactor groups helped out in this film. It's definitely worth checking out just for the uniforms and hardware alone although the film itself is worth watching (and in my case rewatching several times).

Hello Tim,

Winter War is a based on a novel that the story of a few individuals called up to join a particular reserve company that was mobilized when the Soviets invaded in the winter of 1939/40.

The film follows the pattern of many "Platoon" type movies.
There are the usual back-stories (not over much IMHO), scenes of male-bonding/camaraderie during lulls in the fighting, and a fairly large number of very sharp fighting sequences, including some that do an impressive job showing the effects of artillery bombardment on soldiers of both sides.

The movies does a excellent job depicting the (understated) élan of the dwindling Finnish company as it continued to contend against amazing odds with little reinforcements/replacements.

Some highlights in terms of battle scenes: nice panning shots of Soviet infantry companies attacking out of a treeline across a snowy valley alongside T-26s (even a flamethrowing version) towards a thinly held Finnish trenchline; and a Finnish ski company briskly counterattacking a bunker strongpoint that had been captured by the Soviets during the night. (Hope this isn't a spoiler)

There is very little triumphalism in this film and the Soviets are not made look inhuman or subhuman, just poorly led (as they had been in real lfie). The ending is somewhat surreal .... but it makes the point the author/director is trying to make.

The hardware used in the film seems very authentic to me: correct marks of the T-26 used by Soviets, (Czech) Bofors 37mm AT gun and Suomi smgs etcs. used by the Finns. The uniforms are likewise well done. I suspect that some re-enactor groups helped out in this film. It's definitely worth checking out just for the uniforms and hardware alone although the film itself is worth watching (and in my case rewatching several times).

Sorry, Not sure why this happened!

I'm surprised noone's mentioned "Where Eagles Dare". Any film in which Clint Eastwood takes on the German Army single handed has got to be up there with the greats. I'm not so surprised that noone's mentioned "Pearl Harbour".

Until you, damn you.

Pearl harbour, thin red line... Take out the motor of your hoover and stick the tapes of em in there instead.
Windtalkers was fairly silly as well.

Saving Private Ryan
A Bridge too Far
Kelly's Heros
Winter War

1.) Saving Pvt. Ryan

2.) A Bridge too Far

3.) Kelly's Heros

4.) Winter War

For me it's Blackhawk Down & We Were Soldiers

Followed closely by Enemy @ the Gates, SPR, Band of Brothers, & Stalingrad

In my youth I loved the old war movies - Patton, Kelly's Heroes, Battle of the Bulge et. al. - now I just can't stomach them.

I Have Winter War - found it slow & boring - think I need to sit down with it again.

Cross of Iron is a mile ahead of the pack.

A few other good movies mentioned - No, I don't mean Enema at the Door, The Longest Movie, Thin Red Line, Wind Breakers (or anything else with Nicholas Cage in it), Where Eagles Dare (c. Korean War helicopters?), The Great Escape (those whacky Germans!), etc, etc. Apparently the director's cut of "Das Boot" was intended for the torture of prisoners in future wars.

MrP

I'll have to look out for "The Winter War", sounds good. "Cross of Iron" was a good movie (especially for the time), but my current favourite is probably the Dutch movie "Soldier of Orange". Other favourites are "Too Late the Hero", "The Cruel Sea", "Das Boot", "The Great Escape", "Stalag 17", "5 Graves to Cairo", "Casablanca", "The Life & Death of Colonel Blimp", oh heck there's loads and I haven't got the time.
As for SPR the 1st 25 minutes are absolutely awesome, after that it just deteriorates into schmuck. I read that they even installed a grave for Tom Hanks character at one of the war grave cemetaries because so many folks came to see his grave (aaargh the power of Hollywood).

Two good old ones: 'Battleground' (the 101st at Bastogne) and 'A Walk In The Sun' (Salerno).

The first has a great firefight - see the black and white version, the colorized one spoiled something important - the German boots visible below the fog. A flanking move starts with a guys trying to run away - great scene.

A Walk in the Sun was made in '46, right after the war and does not have the usual camraderie among the troops - they're just out to do a job.

Is there a website that lists all WWII related movies regardless of quality?

I am surprised nobody plugged The bridge at Neretva,all those mg 42,s firing from horseback....,get a Belle and Blade video catalogue.

No one has mentioned "Pork Chop Hill." It's Korea, but it is pure combat - a little dated and cold-warrish, but what the heck, we won that too. And one has to include "Twelve O'Clock High." Both Gregory Peck, both excellent.

Cross Of Iron is defintely one of the best movies made set during World War II (Regimental headquarters, come in please!) and probably the best Russian Front movie.

A Bridge Too Far is still one of my favs and I'm not really sure what the historical faults in it are suppose to be other than the odd 'This character actually said this bit' can't be helped unless you want an even larger cast! The river assualt is still an unrivialed piece of filmaking. Midnight Clear, which is superb little war film - fans of this maybe intersted to know it was all shot in the forests of Colorado, the Manor House was actually just a two sided wooded facade and the budget was a measely 3 million dollars. The director did a fantastic job with his limited resources and boy what an atmosphere - Would love to see him have a big budget to play with.

And who could forget "The Best Years of Our Lives", "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit", annd...ooops...wrong discussion group.

Back OT, I can see Private Ryan wrt the beach scene. But IMO it's all down hill from there as Steve goes from one "Hollywood Moment" to another. That's why I like "A Bridge Too Far". There are a few Hollywood Moments but even those are understated. SPR is just chock full of HM.

BTW...any opinions on Anzio?

Tim

Hi guys,

I don't think I have an overall favourite as such, but I definately rate Cross of

... Iron. The Longest Day was great, perfect viewing for a long long Sunday afternoon in the autumn, when you've got nothing to do apart from crash in front of the telly and contemplate missing work on Monday morning. I liked Saving Private Ryan, and it is the best of the recent WWII fillums in this canon, the others being so Hollywood sentimental that they make me want to puke.

What woudl be great would be a film about Indian soldiers in WW2, so listen up Spielberg, and don't black up Tom Hanks for the lead role, it wouldnae work!!

"What woudl be great would be a film about Indian soldiers in WW2"

I used to think there was one.

When I was a kid, the movie "Attack and Retreat" was sometimes shown on TV. And every time, our local paper (the Chicago Tribune) described it as a movie about "Indians on the Russian Front." Which was so preposterous to me, even at age 10, that I never watched it.

The movie is actually about the Italians on the Russian Front, of course, and I kick myself to this day for never having seen all of it.

But I agree, a movie about the Indians, particularly in Burma, would be a very welcome addition indeed.

Actually, there are some films out there about Indian soldiers in WW2, but they are all Indian films so if you don't speak Hindi, you may get a little stuck trying to work out who is saying what to whom. I've never heard of 'Attack and Retreat' but it sounds interesting. I'll try and look it up.

Going back to Indians in western WW2 films. There was an Indian character in the English Patient - the mine clearing officer played by Naveen Andrews. It could have been a really good part but, well, Naveen's portrayal of the character kind of bordered on a kind of uncle tom stereotype. Could have been better, but at least it is there...

Attack and Retreat is the pre-Stalingrad movie - just as grim, and I believe literally "knicked" by the producer of Stalingrad (afterall who would remember a movie about Italians in Russia???) The movie is great, however, to try to get American audiences interested, the producers cast Peter Falk as an Italian Army doctor to go and help the Russians deal with the illness (or wounds - I don't remember), of their men. It is too deliciously ludicrious for words. Cut that out, and the Italians singing the "Internationale" with the Russian field workers will tell you all you need to know about the message of this film - though I suspect "Stalingrad" (which I love) is made with the same political viewpoint.

Don't forget the HBO movie, "When Trumpets Fade" about the 28th in the Hurtgen Forrest. A good movie.

Battle of the Bulge is pretty poor history, but has some great gaming lines ("Tiger to Panther, moved that junk off the bridge!")

Cross of Iron, certainly an interesting anti-war movie.

"Tiger to Panther, moved that junk off the bridge!"

Lol. I've just used my nostrils as a water pistol, but with fizzy beer.

That was the point in the movie where anything else was a better use of my time.

Top marks for The Pianist, a well crafted movie for the era.

Kelly's Heroes is a big favourite, even with the hippy undertones, "What is it with those negative waves?"

The Cruel Sea, is a class film, the same with Ice Cold In Alex. Alamein was pretty good I seem to remember. Then there's Mister Roberts and Catch 22.

The thing with ABTF for me was all the bolted on amature dramatics, like the supply canister landing in the field. Which is also my complaint with COI, too much 'art direction'. Still both class films.

I wonder if anyone can help me with a film I saw about 25 years ago. It was set in the Pacific Theatre and was about the deteriation of a platoon trying to escape a Japanese occupied island. Scenes of note, were, a soldier puting a satchel charge under a Jap tank, and only two survivors making it to a radio station. Pretty vague, sorry. And probably utterly pants, but I'd like to see it again. Does anybody have a clue to what I'm on about?

Battleground- Superb, unsurpassed unril the Bulge episodes of BofB.

Read CROSS OF IRON recently, or THE WILLING FLESH in German but maybe that should be THE VOLUNTARY MEAT? Good book. Ending not as good as film though. Love the D&D-style fight with the Russians in a building complex. SPR is dire.

I like the atmosphere of spritual sickness in COI- conveys the repulsive effects of war.

Well "Cross of Iron" is awsome, I would also recomend "Europa Europa"

What is that children's song? "Lightly Row"

Cross of Iron and When Trumpets Fade are my favourites.

BV

PS, recently watched Kelly's Heroes and Where Eagles Dare with my 12 year old, he thought they were great (nice to see younger generation appreciating these movies still)

None but the Brave - Francis Albert Sinatra.

enough said.

"The thing with ABTF for me was all the bolted on amature dramatics, like the supply canister landing in the field"

That was actually a scene straight from Cornelius Ryan's book, as described by a veteran, IIRC.

I think my favourite part of that movie, as a former tanker, was the start of the move forward by XXX Corps, seeing the lead British Sherman commander speaking into his mike: "Driver advance!" - how many, many, many times have I spoken the same thing (under, of course, far less dire circumstances!). It meant nothing to me and I'd forgotten it when I saw it as a kid in the 70s, however on rewatching the film shortly after finishing my service, that scene made me smile big!

COI is really good. Absolutely horrifying sex scene... In fact, believe it or not, during my armour training (phase II, infantry squad tactics to weed us out before we started burning diesel fuel in the Leopards), the armour school in Gagetown had this film as an "officer development" film and comments about it afterward emphasized its depiction of officer versus NCO relationship.

I also loved When Trumpets Fade. They put a lot of effort into dressing up something as Panzer IVs. Band of Brothers is a classic series, too.

SPR left me not really wanting to play wargames for a little while after the graphic beach landing scene, which for those who didn't like the rest of the show, no one can say anything about it except it was done superbly - the audience I was in reeled back and forth with the unending assault on our senses - I got close to dizzy during my first showing because of the combination of jerking camera angles and my head yelling for a pause in the action.

And, although I hated Thin Red Line (though I liked how they did calling for the artillery mission) in the theatre, I had nothing to do a little while ago and watched it when it was broadcast on a TV station here. And, in spite of my first impression, I kind of liked it on rewatching it.

I thought STalingrad a great disappointment after Das Boot. Too much foolishness with the quartermaster hoarding the Soviet chick which just seemed silly. Some good scenes, though, but overall, it dragged on far too long for me.

One movie I have to watch every time it's on TV is "Battle of the Bulge." It's like watching a train wreck. Most movies use post-war American equipment as German because so little German equipment is available. These guys didn't even get the American equipment correct. Particularly note the horrible old horse-drawn guns the Yanks used in the defence of Ambleve, with their steel seats for the gunners and the screw breeches (and before someone says they were 75's, they were not).

I knew that this was not going to be a historically accurate movie the moment I read the line in the credits that said: "Telly Savalas as 'Guffy'".

Telly Savalas looked nothing at all like Guffy. :-)

Well, the name of the childrens song is "Hänschen klein". Its still a quite popular song for small kiddies here in germany : ).
But back to topic: I think, that Stalingrad is one of the best movies acout WW2, because it describes the hard life at the eastern front at a realistic way. War wasnt, isnt and will never be fun. So i dont like SPR, because it is so pathetic. When i saw the film, i asked myself, if there will run a commercial for the US-army recruitment at the end. Also i didnt liked, that they always fought against SS. Hell, if you see some american warmovies, you might think, that all german troops belonged to the SS and are only using Tigers. And of course, they were able to defend a town, with less than a platoon, against an whole armoured regiment of the Waffen-SS. No offence to american soldiers, but as good as they were (and are : ) ),they know limits too. Otherwise they had ended the war in two weeks, if they were as good as in SPR. So I only enjoyed the first five minutes of the film, when i saw, what a german soldier could do with an MG42/MG3 (MG42 in 7,62mm Nato. I used it as an conscript : ).) . That were my two cents to it.

Emil

Sorry, i meant "Hänschen klein".

Emil

Sorry, try "Haenschen klein". There is a special letter for ae in the german language, that isnt at this board.

Emil

Saving Private Ryan
Stalingrad
A Bridge Too Far
When Trumpets Fade
Cross of Iron

Top 5

What about objective burma - ok maybe it makes out that only the yanks fought in Burma but it was realistic in other ways

Sturer Emil:

"Hell, if you see some american warmovies, you might think, that all german troops belonged to the SS and are only using Tigers."

Most American WW2 wargames look like that, too.

"Hell, if you see some american warmovies, you might think, that all german troops belonged to the SS and are only using Tigers."

As much of my WW2 gaming covers the heroic exploits of the British Army around Caen, then that is precisely what you get - hordes of SS troops equipped with Tigers (and Panthers) in historically appropriate amounts.

Martin

1. Cross of Iron
2. Stalingrad
3. Das Boot
4. The Eagle Has Landed...I know but I love the book
5. Winter War