| John the OFM | 08 Jan 2015 9:53 a.m. PST |
I do not paint or run WWII naval games, but if you got the lead and the mats, "I will be there rolling dice.
HMS Ulysses is the first Alister Maclean novel that I read, He does not write "literature", he writes hauiry chested ripping yarns for two fosted readers. 
So, it is good stuff. Ahem. That out of the way. It is described as unique, the only one in its class. Does that mean that it was a failure in design, within the bounds of fiction, that is.
And second, if I wanted to make a model of it, what currently available gaming (or modeling!) miniatures in any scale would I use, and how much modification would it need? Now, let me go and dig out my battered paperback copy… |
| John the OFM | 08 Jan 2015 9:54 a.m. PST |
"Literature" would be Nicholas Monsarrat's "The Cruel Sea".
It is the epitome of how ordinary, competent men just plugging away and doing their job can be significant.
No false heroics, just hardship and … competence. |
| Toronto48 | 08 Jan 2015 10:26 a.m. PST |
Both Literature pundits and Naval historians suggest that the fictional HMS Ulysses was based on the Dido class of Royal Navy Cruisers link link There was a real HMS Ulysses that was a U Class Destroyer My own "first choice" GHQ does not seem to make a Dido class ship with the exception of HMS Dunedin that is shown in an antiaircraft configuration that does not match the novel I will leave the choice of models to others |
 Yellow Admiral  | 08 Jan 2015 10:26 a.m. PST |
Wikipedia says that the Ulysses is "similar to the real Dido-class cruisers", and later that MacLean based Ulysses on HMS Royalist. Check out the Wikipedia page on the Dido-class cruisers and the page for HMS Royalist and decide for yourself what, if anything, needs to change. Typical WWII naval gaming scales are:
1/6000 (tiny!)
1/4800 (pretty tiny)
1/3000 (small, not usually very detailed)
1/2400 (smallish, can be very detailed)
1/1200 and 1/1250 (larger, can be very detailed) I've also seen people use good 'ol 1/700 plastic model kits. Larger plastic models usually have quite a bit of detail, can be super-detailed with aftermarket parts, are much easier to customize than little lead or resin miniatures (styrene is easy to cut, shape, glue and paint), but will probably be hard to game with. The best scale to choose depends on what kind of gaming you want to do. In general, smaller scales work better for larger fleet actions, larger scales work better for smaller more "skirmishy" actions. Smaller models give you more sea room to maneuver around, larger models give you a better impression of the ships involved. Describe the types of scenarios you want to play. - Ix |
| LeavingTMP | 08 Jan 2015 10:30 a.m. PST |
Isn't it supposed to be like the Dido class that Maclean served on during the North Sea convoys? |
 Mserafin | 08 Jan 2015 10:34 a.m. PST |
My own "first choice" GHQ does not seem to make a Dido class ship with the exception of HMS Dunedin that is shown in an antiaircraft configuration Huh? Here is GHQ's Dido:
link Here's their modified Dido (which is more likely a fitting model for Ulysses):
link The Dunedin is an old WW1 "D" class, she does not come in AA rig. That would be the Calcutta, an old WW1 "C" class:
link |
| Fatman | 08 Jan 2015 12:20 p.m. PST |
Yeah at anything 1/2400th and below the "modified Dido" is the bunny. From memory the book mentions modifications to the bridge but for the life of me I can't remember what and at these scales I doubt they would be noticeable. The Dunedin would be the closest to HMS Stirling. McLean described it as a "Cardiff class" (Which would have meant it would have a name beginning with C not named after a city.) but GHQ only does an AA version of the C class and the D class is the closest substitute. Fatman |
| goragrad | 08 Jan 2015 12:59 p.m. PST |
I also considered the Ulysses to be an 'improved' Black Prince/Royalist. PF-CinC has the Dido and Dragon. However C turret would have to be removed and a pompom added to convert the Dido to Ulysses. Without further research I am not sure which gun has to be removed from the Dragon to make a C class. Would guess X or Y? Here is a Ulysses schematic from the book -
|
| Toronto48 | 08 Jan 2015 3:21 p.m. PST |
Thanks Mark I missed the GHQ model |
| hindsTMP | 08 Jan 2015 9:24 p.m. PST |
PF-CinC has the Dido and Dragon. However C turret would have to be removed and a pompom added to convert the Dido to Ulysses. Actually that wouldn't be a good likeness, as the "second group" of the Dido class (which is what we want for HMS Ulysses) had vertical funnels and a lower forward superstructure. It wasn't just the removal of C turret. Better to use the GHQ model if you want 1/2400. For 1/6000, much as I love Figurehead, their model of "Bellona" needs some surgery to accurately represent the "second group". Not hard if you have some model making skills, but I'm just saying … MH |
| Grelber | 08 Jan 2015 9:41 p.m. PST |
Having just one ship in the class usually means something other than a design failure: after all, the nobody waits for the first one to be finished and complete trials before starting the rest of the class. Usually, it is a financial problem or perceived lack of need. Google HMS Bristol or HMS Hood for single ship classes that started out with sister ships that didn't complete. Grelber |
| dragon6 | 08 Jan 2015 10:18 p.m. PST |
As Mserafin wrote here link is an excellent model for HMS Ulysses Well I tried. My tablet cannot link the image from photobucket. |
| Yellow Admiral | 09 Jan 2015 10:26 a.m. PST |
That HMS Black Prince by GHQ does look a lot like the line drawings above. For John the OFM: that model should be right around 2.5" long. - Ix |
 Virtualscratchbuilder  | 09 Jan 2015 12:37 p.m. PST |
Without further research I am not sure which gun has to be removed from the Dragon to make a C class. Would guess X or Y? To make a D into a C you would have to remove the gun sited between the forefunnel and the bridge, shorten the hull by a scale 20 feet, and lighten up the aft superstructure. Probably not much you could do about the beam difference. Not sure that would be noticeable at 1/2400 anyway. To convert a D into a C class AA cruiser would be much more radical, as the 6" were removed from the C's and replaced with 10 single 4" guns. |
| goragrad | 09 Jan 2015 2:13 p.m. PST |
Should have looked at the models. Superstructure is a killer. On the other hand, that book illustration shows Ulysses with the original Dido's raked funnels. A lesser mod and one that probably doesn't matter at 1/2400 or smaller… I am seeing (on wiki) only a 5ft difference in length (D is shorter) and a 3ft difference in beam (D is wider). Not much at 1/2400. Cs have four dual and D had four triple 21in torpedo mounts. P.S. Oops – so much for wiki, 20ft oa it is. worldwar1.co.uk/lightcru.htm |
