"Loyalist Uniforms at Kings Mountain" Topic

I've been try to ascertain just what Loyalist units were at the battle of Kings Mountain. And what they were wearing.
Am I corret in thinking that there were no green coats at KM.
All the Loayalists were in red by then, I'm told.

Were any Loayalists in civillian dress? If so, how were they distinguished from the Over Mountain folk?

I've got enough OMM to do the battle, but I need help with the Loyalists, especially with uniforms and headgear.

Help?

Off the top of my head, I thought most were in civilian clothing, including Ferguson. If there were any uniformed troops there it was only a handful I think.

At least four illustrators (that I can think of off the top of my head) have depicted Loyalist troops at King's Mountain as redcoats at King's Mountain.

Louis S. Glanzman, in "With Fire and Sword", is one illustrator who did this. Two of his paintings include Loyalist guides who look just like Patriot riflemen. The same goes for Don Troiani's painting of King's Mountain. Troiani depicted a Loyalist unit with red coats and green facings.

I also took a look at Greg Novak's book on the southern campaigns of the AWI. Its information about the Loyalist OOB at King's Mountain is kind of sketchy: 100 rangers, 450 NC Loyalists and 350 SC Loyalists.

I hope this helps a little. I can't investiage further, because I need to tear myself off the computer and get ready for work. I'm interested to see what other responses you'll get.

Jeff

Were the Loyalists "regulars"?
Or were they just an ad hoc gathering?

If regulars I would simply use your "Ragged Continentals" with slouch hats.

wiki:

Ferguson was unaware that the rebels had caught up to him and his 1,100 men. He was the only regular British soldier in his command,[30] composed entirely of Loyalist Carolina militia (except for the 100 or so red-uniformed Loyalist soldiers from New York). He had not thought it necessary to fortify his camp.[31]

Suspect the redcoats were NY Loyalists then.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (a sure reference!) that the Patriot side put sheets of paper in their hats to distinguish them from the Loyalists. That would hardly be necessary if the Loyalists wore red (or green) uniforms.

However, the wikipedia article also says that Ferguson ordered at least two bayonet charges.
This suggests that they had bayonet training, implying "regulars" or training, and that might imply uniforms also.

I would be happy to game it with the Loyalists dressed as militia, or as red coats or as green coats.
Please do not take this to mean that I am indifferent to accuracy. I simply have the figures needed to go either way.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet the only ones who conducted bayonet charges were the NY Loyalists. I bet the loyalist militia just watched. If 100 our so of the NY guys, that would be about three companies worth.

A google search found this.

link

Fact or fiction?

And Super Max where are you????

YouTube link

Really good video of the battle. No idea where it comes from but turn the sound down or off. The soundtrack is unbearable.

These men were detached from these units for service with Ferguson.

•King's American Regiment (Captain Abraham DePeyster, New York): 22
•Loyal American Regiment (New York): 18
•New Jersey Volunteers (Captain Samuel Ryerson, New Jersey): 57
•Prince of Wales American Regiment (New York): 18
•Unknown Provincial Unit: 3
•Total: 118

Interesting, and if correct, it goes a long way to explain why it is so hard to identify the Loyalists. Most likely they had red coats with blue facings, though different buttons (hard to see in 28/15mm). Have to look at Don's green coats soldier to see who that is supposed to be.

Hardly a cohesive force to wrap militia around.

The majority of Ferguson's men were militia. They would have worn civilian clothing and/or hunting shirts. There were returns for stands of arms issued (cartridge box, bayonet and belt and musket) I have seen returns for issued by the british. So equipment wise they might have been uniformed. Never seen clothing issued; that would have been for regular loyalist regiments.
Ferguson's American Volunteer regiment was made up.of companies from other regular loyalist units. They would have worn the uniform of their parent regiment.
Loyalist uniforms are a complicated subject. Years ago I had a wonderful correspondence with Todd Brastaid and learned that a lot of what I thought I new to be true was not. As to uniforms it depended on what regiment and what year. It changed that much. Take a look at his website (loyalist instatue) there is a ton of information there.

They may have been issued a stand of arms (musket, bayonet, box), but I suspect they weren't well drilled or disciplined.

Here is Todd's website, which is excellent.

royalprovincial.com

I have been told by Loyalist re-enactors that when the war started green coats were the norm, but as the war progressed it seemed most, if not all, Loyalist coats became red with blue facings, regardless of the title of the unit.

Here are some relevant examples from Don's site:

link

link

link

Exceptions perhaps to the Loyalist coat trend would be QR, BL, Butlers and Yorkers. There are always exceptions.

I remember reading somewhere that Ferguson was wearing a plaid jacket at Kings mountain and wore a whistle.

So the question is "How did the OMM differentiate themselves from the Loyalists, so as not to end up killing
the wrong fellows?

There has to be some explanation.

The Loyalists were uphill. The Patriots were downhill.

Seriously I really think it was some sort of field recognition device in the hat. Paper or a clump of leaves or something.

At King's Mountain NBP they claim paper was used by the Patriots, and that only I unit from both sides was uniformed (in red)..fits with the Northern Loyalist unit mentioned above.

You also need to remember that these guys knew each other and where their loyalty stood.
The AWI in the South was much more of a civil war, and it got personal, a lot of opportunity to settle old scores.

I wonder if some of Ferguson's rifles found there way there. Interesting appendix about that possibility in Harris' book on Brandywine.

"You also need to remember that these guys knew each other and where their loyalty stood.
The AWI in the South was much more of a civil war, and it got personal, a lot of opportunity to settle old scores."

Some may have known each other, but not all. Don't forget that the OMM lived away feom what as considered civilization back then and had to travel by horseback many miles to get to Kings Mt.
It defies logic that every participant in the battle knew each other. So I don't think that's the case here.

There had to be another way of determining friend from foe.

I should have said "Some of those guys"

Every thing I have read says the Patriots had put paper in their hat brims.

Dear rhacelt,
do remember when recounting this war that your "patriots" were actually rebels or in today's parlance "insurgents" and only became patriots or freedom fighters LATER after winning their country to be patriotic for….

So when listening to the news, the enemy is always a rebel/insurgent. The same fellow is freedom fighter/patriot if a friend.

Bias in the telling of history or current affairs? Heck, yeah……

Let me rephrase that then.
The freedom loving God fearing Good Guys put scraps of paper in their hats so as to distinguish themselves from the traitorous dupes of the foreign despotic oppressors.

Ok?

Some portrayals of Ferguson have him in a green hunting shirt. Supposedly he had locally made "plug bayonets" made up to fit rifle bores for his rifle armed men. When the Provincials were ordered into red coats you see blue, buff, green, green & buff facings, not just blue. Most of the blue facings went to units with "Royal" in their title. Being the Inspector General of Provincials DeLancey managed to get away with having blue facings for his Bde. Both sides at one point or another used bits of paper in their hats as a field sign. During Shays Rebellion the Shaysites wore bits of hemlock while the Gov't mercenaries wore bits pf paper. A lot of the big floppy hats or slouch hats were actually cut down to 3" or 4" brims.

I don't think that is correct regarding Loyalists not wearing blue facings. Besides the confusing De Lancey's battalions, there were indeed other units that wore blyue facings, such as the 1st New Jersey Volunteers, as well as several others. In fact, the green coats were largely out of fashion for the Loyalists at some point, with a handful of exceptions (QR, BL and perhaps Yorkers)

The King's American Regiment had olive green facings.

I wonder if some of Ferguson's rifles found there way there. Interesting appendix about that possibility in Harris' book on Brandywine.

It seems to be accepted that no Ferguson rifles were used at King's Mountain – not even by Ferguson himself.

When it comes to militias of one side or the other it seems that the obvious way of determining friend from foe in these militia groupings is that them guys over there standing behind the British flag and shooting at us are tories, these guys over here standing behind the Rebel flag are Americans. Its more believable than thinking that there were resources to get these mobs into the same uniform.

Of course these don't make for neat, uniform, and colorful lines on the wargame table, something that would be jarring to some.

Los

p.s. Just finishing up painting two large AWI armies myself, so have spent some effort wondering about such things

I couldn't recall the KAR facing colors off the top of my head. That olive seemed to be a popular color for many of the loyalist units (PA, MD, KAR). The NJV and Delancey's all seemed to have blue. The Royal Yorkers still seem a bit of a mystery, and may have changed over time too. Others with blue include (I think) a unit from North Carolina as well. I'm sure others too.

BTW I found this to be a great reference:
Uniforms of the American Revolution by John Mollo

link

Los