"Advice for ACW Newbie" Topic

I have been interested in getting involved in ACW miniatures gaming for many years now, but never pursued it due to the expense. I am now serious about getting started and would appreciate some advice before making any investment.

Which game system do you recommend?
What scale do you prefer(i.e, 10mm, 15mm, etc.)?
What ACW miniatures do you recommend?

I own a mint condition Johnny Reb Second Edition Boxed Set that I probably bought when it first came out, but have never used. I have seen some recommendations for this game system on this and some other forums. I have modeled and painted many miniatures over the years and would prefer pre-painted minis.

I have been considering the Gordon & Hague since they also have pre-painted 15MM miniatures available,although it seems many of the forum members may prefer 10mm. The Grand Army set looks like it could be a good starting point. I have seen some comments critical of the quality of the models and the customer service, or lack thereof, which is a concern.

I would prefer table ready models, but am open to considering purchasing models and having someone prepare them for me, although I expect that would be cost prohibitive.

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated :)

I like 10mm for ACW, but then I like big games. The Cracker Line Miniatures are fantastic sculpts. It is difficult to believe that they got so much detail in 10mm figures.

However, I like the OG 10mm stuff over all because of the durability of the figures and the ease of painting them on strips, plus they are very good miniatures and they look like they are really marching in close order because the figures are so close together.

I like to play entire battles so my ACW gaming is almost exclusively with Volley and Bayonet, either with 15s or 25s.

GAJO also offer prepainted figs, and you will find a painting service or two that sells on ebay. G&H is probably your cheapest option.

What do you want a unit to represent?

What size games to you want to play?

How big is your table?

Since you are looking to buy prepainted, can you give us an idea of your budget?

Some TMPers like 10s, but I don't know if I would say that "many" do, unless you also say that many like 6s, 15s and 25s. You need to figure out what you like because what we like doesn't matter. We may like the same scale, we may not, and that is okay.

I have 25s and 54s. Sometimes I think about getting some 6mm stuff to do some experimenting with. I've bought and sold several 10mm armies--they just don't do anything for me (but Pictors loves them). I sold off my 15s many years ago and went with 25s. Conversely, I know a guy who sold off all of his 25s to go with 15s.

I think big 15mm/18mm ACW armies look great on a table. You can see my collection at link

From my experience, 15mm seems to be the most popular scale for ACW gamers, but there are some 25mm gamers as well.

I have a collection of 15mm (more like 18mm) ACW miniatures. I'm thinking of painting up a few 28mm ACW figs because the Perry plastics look good.

For rules, well, that is a hard one. You said you have JRII, but take a look at JRIII. Also, FFR.
Johnny Reb III
Fire and Fury Regimental.

I like Field of Battle a card driven game and use QRF 15mm because they make pretty much any troop type you could want.

When I went back into ACW about five years ago, I did a lot of research on the scale.
In the end I chose 10mm because of the cost, the look on the table, and, most importantly, the sculpts. The figures being produced today are just wonderful, and one could argue that 10 is the new 15 (I am sure there will be LOTS of people to argue with that! ).
Another plus with 10s is that I, as a less than enthusiastic painter, managed to paint up two entire armies in hardly no time at all, and they looked great (which for me is something of a miracle!).

For rules I have the original Fire and Fury, the original On to Richmond, and several other old school sets, but these days I mostly play Black Powder because to me it is quite a relaxing set of rules.

The main thing, choose what suits you best and have a damn good time!

I started up in ACW about 1 yar ago, I went for 10mm because the mass of troops looks good compared to large scales. I went for Pendraken as they have a good range of figures.
For rules I chose FirenFury Regimental as the old FnF was already fmailiar at my club and it was easy to get people to move to them.

IMHO nobody has ever captured the "feel" of the American Civil War like Dave Allsop the original Old Glory 15mm sculptor. His line is my favorite and my armies are his figures. Problem is you can't get them any more…which is very sad.

I have a large ACW collection in 10mm and with johnny reb II have managed to play many big battles, without too much of an issue. As has been pointed out 15mm is probably a more popular choice.

10mm is cheaper which would allow both sides to be done.

jon

Michael Jones,

May I suggest you get this free guide?

link

It won't answer ALL your question…but it will help you see what is out there.

Which game system do you recommend?

I am currently using Longstreet, mainly because of the campaign system. If you want to see what it is like, there is a free "Lite" version (called "Longstreet Lite" for some reason!) that can be downloaded from the Honor website – try it and see.

I was turned on to ACW gaming by Fire and Fury, having been turned off some years ago by Johnny Reb First Edition. Regimental Fire and Fury (RFF) is a more complex version of Fire and Fury (FandF), and so I would suggest you try FandF first.

I think the choice is more about the size of battles you wish to play, and the mechanism. For example, FandF is designed so you can play an entire battle on a single table (e.g. Gettysburg), while RFF is for smaller battles or individual actions of a battle (e.g. Devil's Den at Gettyburg). As to mechanism, Longstreet and Field of Battle use card decks (but in different ways), while RFF and FandF involve rolling aginst tables.

What scale do you prefer(i.e, 10mm, 15mm, etc.)?

Most of the players at my club use 15mm, but there is one player using Pendraken's 10mm. My own armies (originally for cost reasons) are 6mm mounted on the common base-width for 10 and 15mm (1 inch).

What ACW miniatures do you recommend?

For 6mm, Adler with Baccus artillery – I don't like my 6mm mounted in strips.

I like FandF, but am prejudiced due to being one of the play testers for that rules set. I like the look of 15s the best. !0s seem too small and bigger games are a bit harder to put on with 25s. I have some original mini figs that are more like 10mm to 12mm sized and don't fit in with my other figs (Old Glory mostly). I do like the AB figure line and Stone Mounain figures, too.

I'd ask "what do you want to achieve" in a few categories:

1. How detailed do you want your battles to be. The larger the scale the more detail you'll get.

1. What type of scenario do you want to play? Large engagements covering a lot of ground or smaller level battles with just as many units but regiments instead of brigades or divisions.

I jumped into the hobby about 3 years ago with the intention to paint up a few regiments to display in a curio cabinet. I decided to go with 25/28mm for this purpose (a nice paint job on a 25/28 looks awesome IMO). The hobby quickly morphed to the wargamming side of the hobby. I will warn you, you will find many more people playing the smaller scales, so unless you know someone who already has 25/28s or intends to help you amass the inventory necessary (minis, terrain, and room to place a large table to play), 25/28s is a huge endevour as I'm currently finding out. Oh yeah, it takes longer to paint and costs more money, but damn they look cool. Have fun.

In the early 80s I had a div. of Union and a div. of Confederates in 15mm.
I would highly recomend you go 10mm. If I had to do it again that's what I would do.

Although 15mm are always a popular choice, the ACW is very well served by 10mm lines, and it has been a popular scale for the period for at least 15-20 years. I like 10mm figures in general, but for the ACW there is also the great advantage of making all those artillery limbers and mounted/dismounted cavalry – bigger and expensive in 15mm – both much more affordable and easier to fit on the tabletop.

As for rules, again there is a wealth to fit any play style. The old stand-by's were Johny Reb for tactical and Fire & Fury for big battles, but there are a few new sets such as Fire & Fury Regimental and Guns at Gettysburg that are probably more the standard for tactical level games today, and Black Powder is of course very popular (but you will have to do some work to get things going, so the other sets might be better for a beginner). On the "big battle" side, I really like the tried and true Volley and Bayonet.

While there are rules for all preferences, and there is no such thing as "bad wrong fun" if you like a particular set, I have to say that I would steer you away from Longstreet, especially as a beginner. My own feeling is that it fails utterly as a historical game, and its only virtue is the attached campaign system, which is nice but in my case hardly worth the aggravation of wading through the imagi-nations take on the period and the "Gotcha!" nature of the card-driven system.

Cheers,

Christopher

We've been playing Fire & Fury Regimental and Rifle Wars in my group.

I'm pressing War Artisan to republish Rifle Wars.

As to scale I've got 10mm and 15mm armies. I prefer 10mm for the reasons Christopher as stated above. at 1:44 p.m.

After all these replies I bet you're even more confused than you were before you asked.

Thank you for all of the responses! I have to admit I feel a little overwhelmed, but appreciate LOTS of information before I make an investment, so keep them coming!!

I have no idea about battle size. Are there any ACW gamers in the north Dallas area?

15mm for bigger battles. I played JR2 forever but recently switched to "Mr. Lincoln's War" the basing in JR2 is ridicules. Stick to regimental rather than brigade. You will get more of a feel for the conflict than with brigades.

Second that. Stay with regiments.

For economy and good, comprehensive ranges, have a look at the Peter Pig website for 15mm and Pendraken for 10mm (*new* ACW range). I have 2 specialist rule sets for ACW but strangely have never played them(!). I'm quite happy with Field of Battle and Black Powder.

After all these replies I bet you're even more confused than you were before you asked.

Most advice can be split up as follows:

There are 4 basic scale of figures:

25/28mm
15/18mm
10/12mm
5/6mm

Each has it's proponents. The smaller the scale the larger the battle you can represent and the less the distortion between figure and ground scale.

Smaller figures are easier to paint because the require less detail, because of this they have less detail some gamers do not care for them. They are individually cheaper to buy but this is somewhat offset by the extra numbers you buy. Overall 6mm and 10mm figures give you the best bang for the buck, especially when buying artillery and limbers.

15/18mm has become very popular scale much because of the compromise. As someone who introduced this scale to a gaming group in the 1970's remember there is a strain of conservatism that runs through games that does not like changes of scale.

Whilst I have preferences on scale, find out what the local gaming group prefers. If you are attempting to introduce a new period to a group you may have a little more leeway. This is unlikely to apply with ACW because it has been popular for 50 years.

Scale of game:

Does the unit represent a Battalion/Regiment (regimental game), or,

A number of regiments representing a brigade.

The latter is a form of 'bath-tubbing' aimed at representing larger battles. It looses some of the tactical nuances of a period.

Rules:

Very much a personal matter.The ACW has many different rules. Again, look at what you likely opponents like first.

Personally I do not rate "Rally Round the Flag" or "Johnny Reb" (the former is ambiguous and badly written and the latter because I dislike any game that clutters the board with 'Chadwicks" – i.e. status or order markers).

If you have a hobby store near you, talk to the staff find out what is popular read the rules before purchasing. If not, well join the rest of us in having lots of sets we've never played.

Hope this helps.

Elliott

Still gathering info..

What is the standard table size for ACW gaming? 6' X 4'?

How many minis/bases will I need for a "standard" size battle?

How many minis per base for each unit type (infantry, cavalry, artillery, command)?

Do you know any Dallas area ACW gamers/gaming clubs?

How about painting services? I really really don't want to do my own modeling, basing, painting. Not sure I have the time to invest, although it may be cost prohibitive.

What is the standard table size for ACW gaming? 6' X 4'?

If you are gaming with 10/12/15mm figures on 1" wide bases (a common width used by Fire and Fury, Johnny Reb 3 and several other ruleset) and fielding a brigade-sized force on each side, a 6' x 4' foot table gives a reasonable balance of space to manoueuvre and space to fill with terrain. Of course, if you game historical encounters, the scenario determines the size.

How many minis/bases will I need for a "standard" size battle?

I would say the number of bases depends on your table size, how many units you feel comfortable handling as a player and how long you want the game to last. I suggest that if you want to finish within a few hours and are playing 15mm on the 6' x 4' table mentioned above the maximum number of bases per side is about 50 infantry, 20 cavalry bases (double that if you use separate bases for dismounted cavalry), and 8-10 artillery plus limbers

How many minis per base for each unit type (infantry, cavalry, artillery, command)?

That depends on your rule set and the basing standard. Fire and Fury, which for 10/12/15mm uses 1" wide bases suggests per stand 3 to 5 infantry figures , 2 cavalry figures and 1 gun. The experience at our club is to err on the lower figure for infantry figures, as a 1" wide base becomes crowded with five 15mm figures.

Do you know any Dallas area ACW gamers/gaming clubs?

Based in the UK so cannot help with that question.

How about painting services? I really really don't want to do my own modeling, basing, painting. Not sure I have the time to invest, although it may be cost prohibitive.

I paint and base my own figures so have never investigated painting services.

If cost/time is an issue, I would suggest considering 6mm, since these lend themselves to speed painting and favour bulk purchase. Adler and Baccus produce army packs for 6mm – the Adler website has Fire and Fury Corps packs with infantry, artillery and leaders (you will need to source cavalry separately). Spirit Games sells bulk packs of Adler figures.

I like 10mm for the look on the table of masses of figures. The scale is well supported by terrain and building manufacturers, so you know there are two rules sets called Rally 'Round the Flag one is by S.Craig Taylor, and is currently out of print. The other is newer and written by Scott Monsour, and is quite good.

If you don't want to paint, base, flock your troops, Gettysburg Soldiers will do 15mm for you. Check out their site here: gettysburgsoldiers.com

I'd read through your "Johnny Reb 2" rules, paint some Blue Moon 18mm figures and start gaming! A good JR game is about 3 brigades per side with artillery.

138SquadronRAF wrote:

"There are 4 basic scale of figures:

25/28mm
15/18mm
10/12mm
5/6mm

Each has it's proponents. The smaller the scale the larger the battle you can represent and the less the distortion between figure and ground scale."

As for the relationship with size of battle, I'd say it's rather the opposite. It takes fewer larger figures to fill a brigade base that by default is commonly a 3" square regardless of figure size. If you want to go smaller, then 1.5" is more practical with larger individual castings than with Old Glory strips that are 1" wide (or a bit wider for advancing poses). Still smaller figures are the more commonly in strips, the tiny 2s in blocks.

It's when getting down to a more detailed level that smaller figures are really helpful for getting a greater frontage to depth ratio, so there's less distortion of formations.

Larger sizes are good for showing off each figure's sculpting and painting. Smaller ones are good for the visual effect of greater numbers; any details you do paint in the first place are harder to see from a few feet away!

There is another size — at least nominally an actual scale! — worth mentioning: 1/72. The soft plastic models are very inexpensive, lightweight and durable; they lend themselves to conversions, so a modeler can depict a favorite unit's peculiarities of costume; they fit the 1cm frontage per figure commonly used with 15s to 18s, while being enough larger to be easier on some eyes.

Ask your friends who plays ACW and match their scale and rules. So much easier than trying to start out on your own.

"Advice for ACW Newbie"

Turn back while there is still time!

Never ever, under any circumstances, pick up or read a book on ACW uniforms or flags.