"The Most Lethal Air Forces on the Planet" Topic

A primer on the top five air forces of the world. Note how the article has precise information on the Chinese air forces while only glossing over the Russian air force. And I still couldn't get used to the name of the Chinese naval air arm, the People's Liberation Army Navy Air Force (PLANAF).

link

"… The bulk of these aircraft, however, are old and have neither been substantially upgraded, nor consistently serviced. MiG-29, Su-27 and MiG-31 fighters that predate the end of the Cold War predominate…" pretty much sums up the bulk of the Russian Air Force. Undoubtedly a powerful defensive force and quite the threat to third world nations and Europe but not much of a threat outside of their own neighborhood comparatively.

Exactly. The author has precise numbers on the composition of China's air force by type, but no similar detailed breakdowns for the Russians. His conclusions regarding the Russian AF are actually vague and even dismissive, for an air force that's ranked a step higher than China's.

did I miscount? US; Russia; China; Japan; ?

No, the author included the USN and USMC as the second largest 'air force,' even though they're technically not AF's by definition. But I guess that goes when the combined airpower of the USN and USMC is still larger and more powerful than either Russia's or China's.

Japan is completely lacking in offensive capability. Most of it's fighters are air defence only F-15s and there's only about 90-ish strike capable F-2 (equivalent to F-16) and maybe about 50 F-4 Phantoms.

I'd sooner give slot 5 to India or Israel than Japan.

Gavandjosh02: No you did not miscount. The list was USAF at #1. US Naval Aviation (USN and USMC) at #2, Russia, China, Japan.

While I have great respect for the Japanese Self Defense Forces, I think the Israel (IDF) Airforce would likely be more lethal then JSDF. They have more fighter/attack aircraft and far more combat experience.

For that matter, I'm not certain I'd give high odds on either Russia or China being able to achieve air superiority over Israel.

Note that the author is likely of Japanese heritage.

Deadone, agreed, I am working up a Russia/JSDAF scenario over a JSD Navy naval relief ship indanger during a humanitarian mission to the disputed Kuril Islands/Northern Territories. The forces should be about equally hamstrung but for different reasons.

Yeah, pull Japan and replace with India or Israel (for different reasons.)

Now, if we were talking missile technology alone…

The title of the article includes "Most Lethal"

China and Japan should be removed---unless there is some sort of proof of "shadow ops" that are not placed into any news story in the world.

Israel and Egypt should be high on the list--possible tie in position.

Great Britian, and Russia may also have a possible tie---my personal opinion is that Russia has lost pace in aircraft but may have a numbers advantage in surface to air missiles---if that counts as "Air Force"

I'd say that the airforce America bought for Israel would be right up the top given that they strike everything that looks at them funny these days.

^^^^^

Obvious is obvious.

If we're limiting the air forces to interceptions, I will include the JSDF as one of the most capable. But they don't have any ability to strike.

I'm not sure where the Russians stand numbers-wise, but they aren't much better off than China. Russia really only leads China in strategic bombers.

Either Israel or India has better fighters than Russia or China, and I would rate Israel higher than India just because of greater recent combat experience.

So my list would be USAF, US Naval Aviation, Israel (tied with India for 3rd place), and Russia (tied with China for 5th).

Israel and Egypt should be high on the list--possible tie in position

Egpyt is dud force. There's about 200 F-16s and 18 Mirage 2000s (1980s avionics) but half of the fleet is completely obsolete – 120 MiG-21/F-7, 35-ish F-4E with 1970s avionics and 60-80-ish Mirage 5 (including veterans of 1973 war).

There's no tankers so no reach.

It's completely reliant on others for spares and logistics.

They also never got AMRAAMs for their F-16s (Israeli pressure apparently). They use AIM-7 Sparrows instead.

Turkey has far more capability even though their fleet is smaller. Even their F-4s have been upgraded to potent standard (F-4E-2020 Terminator)

Either Israel or India has better fighters than Russia or China,

India doesn't operate better fighters than Russia.

Most numerous Indian fighters are MiG-21s as and there is large fleets of MiG-27 and Jaguar. They only retired the 1960s vintage MiG-21FL last year and still have squadrons of MiG-21MF equivalents in service (confusingly called a MiG-21M in Indian service)!

They have about 240+ Su-30 (Russians operate Flankers too and in large numbers), 100+ MiG-29s (including carrier capable. Russians operate these too and again in far greater numbers) and 49 Mirage 2000s. The Russians also have large numbers of MiG-31s, Su-24s and Su-25s.

Most modern Indian aircraft are undergoing upgrades but these are long winded affairs. The Russians are doing the same.

The Indian upgrade processes are so long winded that a MiG-27 upgrade was cancelled because it would only be completed when the aircraft was due to be retired!

But overall Russia's fleet is more modern. There are no 2nd generation junk heaps flying unlike India and China.

The Chinese have a bigger fleet and operate more modern fighters than India(300+ SU-27/-30 and 200+ J-10 as well as maybe 240 JH-7 strike aircraft).

Their 2nd/3rd generation junk is also generally newer than Indias (delivered in 1990s as opposed to 1970s-80s) and upgraded to more modern standards.

How about the Saudis?

I seem to recall they have a lot of F-15s, Tornadoes, aerial tankers, and even AWACS, IIRC.

Not sure of how many of the above are operational still.

The Saudis have top line equipment, and lots of it, but I don't know how good their pilot training is.

I'm not sure about India. They are close to an agreement on acquiring the Rafale from the French which should be a significant upgrade, but as Deadone said most of their planes are old.

Saudi pilots are well trained and top-notch. I believe they even have an Ace from Desert Storm days.

Saudi Arabia has the largest F-15 fleet next to the USA. They are able to afford and maintain their modern military and readiness due to their wealth and high defense budget.

No Saudi Aces in Desert Storm. In fact no aces whatsoever. Last American fighter ace was Steven Ritchie who flew F-4s in Vietnam.

Ironically last aces in the world were Iranian pilots in 1980-88 war flying US built F-14s.

Saudis bagged 2 Mirage F1s in Desert Storm. The F1s were flying a ground attack sortie and weren't equipped for A2A combat. Still kills are kills.

Quality of Saudis is debatable. Lots of nepotism, especially in higher ranks. A lot of the ground crew are terminally useless with poor discipline and training and as such Western contractors are often used to maintain aircraft. Apparently there's big problems with AWOL too and given political/family connections, reprimands are rare.

This is from reports from US and UK military types who have served there.

Many third world armies have contract maintenance for a reason – so it gets done correctly.

And many third world nations have more Hanger Queens than flight capable aircraft.

I'd say that the airforce America bought for Israel ???
Why paint a bullseye on your forehead Baron Trapdoor? Are you just being a pillock for the sake of it?