"Virginia Regiment 1754" Topic

Does anybody know what figures would be good for this regiment in 28mm?Figures that would fit Conquest,Perry,etc..
mark

Eureka makes a nice range of 28mm "Provincial" figures for the FIW.

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Yes, Eureka.

I third Eureka

Off topic I know, but just curious….

In colonial regiments like the Virginia Regiment, would the officers have sworn allegiance to State or King?

Hello Mark,
The Virginia regiment in 1754 would have had very few men dressed in uniforms. They were mostly dressed in what they wore from home. The ones that do have uniforms would be mostly all red. If I am not mistaken, Historygamer posed for the painting of Fort Necessity, in the background you will see the Virginia regiment and they are in civilian attire. See first link below.
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The unit in the front is the S.C. battalion, those in the back are the Virginia regiment. You will notice the color company is more uniformed.
We have some excellent figures for the Virginia regiment. They would be our militia codes, but they are larger then the figures you listed above.
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Hope this helps you Mark, but I would keep the uniforms to minimum. It is your unit, so build it the way that suits your taste.
take care,
Keith

What Keith said.

This was a provincial regiment, so the commissions would be issued by the Royal Governor. Actually, he was the Lt. Gov as the real Gov rarely showed up for the job.

This unit was little better than militia, as Keith said. It was not until it was put on a more permanent estblishment in 1756 it came together in a more cohesive way. Still, it had to be reformed every year – something Washington had to undergo in later commands as well.

Colonial Williamsburg has repro colours hanging in the Governor's mansion there, though I believe they are speculative.

If I were redoing this unit from a purely historical perspective, most of my of troops would be in civilian clothing, with the officer kitted out in red coats with red facings and cuffs. Turnbacks (coat skirts) were usually worn down by officers during this period. Silver lace hat, buttons.

Here is a good ont to look at as well:

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John told me I was his model for GW (if I were 6' 2"), with a bigger nose. LOL. He must have caught me at Niagara talking to my friend Todd (Captain McKay). This print is over my fire place, along with the background info.

The problem with the Eureka minis is they look more like the VA Regt of 1755 or later, with the bobbed coat skirts and uniform look. I doubt many of the VA Regt in 1754 had bayonets either.

There is an excellent book (dissertation) titled, "Soldiers When They Want to Be" about the VA troops of the time. Excellent work, can get it from inter-library loan as it is rare.

"In colonial regiments like the Virginia Regiment, would the officers have sworn allegiance to State or King?"

As I said previous, the commission came from the Governor, but allegiance was still to the King (whom the Royal Governor represented).

These commissions became a sticking issue when compared to regular Army commissions – and caused some awkward moments between Washington and Captain McKay, who commanded the Indedpendent Company pictured in the painting. Also became an issue in other theaters as well, and continued into the Rev War with Loyalist units and commissions there.

Provincial commissioned officers served at the pleasure of the Royal Governor, or the Governor of the Proprietary family (such as Maryland and PA). The only colony to elect their own Governor was Rhode Island. I can't comment on troops for there during this time period.

Thanks Historygamer.

Especially the bit about other theatres, I did wonder if those Americans troops serving in the Caribbean were still 'Provincials' or 'temporary Regulars'.

No, they were definitely provincials, and died by the hundreds, as did the regulars.

There was no such thing as a temporary regular. The closest to that were the Independent companys which were generally folded into the army once they showed up in 1755 and beyond, or Rogers Rangers – which unit's officers held the King's Commission, but folded after the war.

The next closest thing to a temporary regular would be the numerous regular army units spun up for the war, but were later decommissioned as time went on. Of course the same thing happen in 1775/1776 too with newly created units, including many of the Loyalist regiments.

Well put Historygamer. I knew I could count on you to add your expertise.
take care,
Keith

Some call it that. Thanks. :-)

Thanks for the info guys.What caught my interest is this thread on another forum link and then I seen a diorama on ebay which I bought.
Mark

That looks pretty cool. The guys in red with green facings are supposed to be the S.C. Independent company under McKay.

Thanks for that info historygamer I didn't realize there were SC troops there.
Mark

Well, the Independent Company was sent up from SC. They were not provincial troops, but an independent company of British regulars, serving under English officers holding the King's commission. I can't say where those men were raised (or where they were born), but they were not colonial troops in the same way the the VA troops were.

To clarify, the Independent company happened to be based out of SC and sent north to help out.

Marco-There is correspondence from Carlyle which suggests that some red coats were dispatched from Alexandria to Washington's troops, along with other items of clothing, equipment and supplies. The question is what that meant. Some have suggested the coats were for officers, or that they were intended for troops that had not been issued uniforms before they left Alexandria. I think both of these are unlikely. It is my guess they were an installment, perhaps the only one, of the red coats that Washington previously requested be provided to his troops. Even if that is true I have seen nothing indicating whether or when the coats were actually issued. I don't know that we can document an answer at this point. If anyone else has a better source, I'd like to see it.

What it may come down to is what do you want to do. You can put the troops in red coats; You can put some of the troops in red coats and others in civilian clothing; or you can put the officers and perhaps the NCOs in red coats and the troops in civilian clothing.

Did the officers of the Virginia troops wear red or blue? I am thinking of the uniform which Washington wore at the first Continental Congress. I think it was blue with red facings. It was years later, so at some point the Virginia uniform changed?

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Good, but complicated question.

It is generally held that Washington wore a red coat, faced red on the Fort Necessity campaign of 1755. He was not the colonel of the regiment though. That man was older, ill, and I think passed away at some point, leaving the young Washington as senior officer. He held that commission the prior year when he delivered a message from the VA governor to the French at Fort Le Boeuf.

For the Braddock campaign of 1755 the VA regiment was broken up into companies only, and no ranks held above Captain. Washington only served as an aide de camp to Braddock. He most likely wore the same red uniform he wore in 1754. The VA troops were issued blue coats, faced red, out of the stores brought over by Braddock.

Washington was reappointed as commander of the VA Regiment after the Braddock disaster to help organized and lead the defense of the frontier. The blue coats, faced red stuck, and was worn up through the Forbes campaign. No doubt Washington had a suitable uniform made up to match at some point. Lace was silver (don't be confused by some of the later paintings/mis-colorings).

Washington resigned after the successful Forbes campaign. At some point Peale painted his portrait in what is thought to be his F&I uniform.

Later, Washington joined the local militia. It is thought the uniform for that unit was blue faced buff, and what he wore to the Continental Congress and subsequently when he assumed command at Boston in 1775.

Doing this off the top of my head, but I think I have this right. :-)

Good link. I wonder if that unit still exists?

Many/most of the provincial uniforms and weapons were supplied by England, contributing to the great debt incurred and post-war taxes placed on the colonies to help pay for all that.

I also recall a passage from Bouquet talking about the poor condition of his own breeches. I suspect if we could go back in time to see these guys we'd be shocked at their appearance.

I know that all manner of uniforms and no uniforms were worn by Continentals during the revolution. But I believe very late in the war Congress finally decided that blue faced red would be the standard uniform for the Continentals and would be used for sometime after the war.

Did the choosing of blue/red have something to do with so many Virginian units already wearing those colors or did Washington himself influence this choice.

I have read that in his 1779 uniform regulations, Washington divided the facing colors in groups by states of which Virginia would receive blue/red uniforms (Mollo p.204.)

Was blue dye just more readably available and cheaper in America and/or France? Could the fact it was generally the opposite facing colors of many British units play a part?

I think we had this discussion before about blue/red for Continentals before but I can not find it.

While Washington came up with a clothing warrant, it was rarely followed. It was up the states to supply their own troops, and they got what they got. The lottery coats from France were generally blue faced red, or brown faced red. Again, the troops got what they got. They were more worried about getting them clothed than following Washington's warrants.

Post war the blue faced red did stick as the uniform.