| marshalGreg | 03 Dec 2014 10:02 a.m. PST |
I am looking for solid strength information of the Prussian and and French formations after the battle of Ligny and which would possibly incorporate or state not, the large desertion of Prussians during the retreat. Any heads up or links would be appreciated. My searches have proven empty and I do not know the best books that would have it. This would be specifically battalion strengths but, @ regimental or at brigade I can make do. MG |
| xxxxxxx | 03 Dec 2014 10:42 a.m. PST |
Maybe some info here (I see losses by brigade for Prussian I Corps at one of the links provided by the posters to this thread):
link A book review (there is a chapter on losses at Ligny):
link - Sasha |
 Saber6   | 03 Dec 2014 2:24 p.m. PST |
Have you looked at Bowden's Armies of Waterloo? |
| marshalGreg | 04 Dec 2014 9:01 a.m. PST |
Saber6, I wish!
At+$200 for past 10 year in my looking, in order too purchase, No I have not. MG |
| JeffsaysHi | 04 Dec 2014 9:42 a.m. PST |
Doubtful anywhere would have solid data I think. In the confusion of a retreat the emphasis is on getting back together as fighting units as many as possible rather than bean counting. Even when a battle was won there was a considerable lag before the admin caught up with what happened. There were always considerable numbers on detachment, fetching supplies, assisting wounded, temporarily captured, passed out in a tavern basement, or slightly wounded unable to initially keep up, that would muster days or weeks later. IIRC the Allied figures have a large measure of that where the British unit returns post Waterloo mostly had very few listed as missing, AND some of the 'foreigners' had considerable numbers.
The difference was actually more when the musters were taken rather than what the soldiers had done. With the foreigners doing a quick bean count very shortly after and the British giving it a couple of weeks. Even then if you did have a solid figure for the 3rd Battalion 23rd regiment at 14:00 on the 17th that was almost certainly different by 04:00 on the 18th. So in total your own finger in the air figure by start end and what happened in between is unlikely to be much worse than anyone else's guesstimates. |
| Allan F Mountford | 04 Dec 2014 11:28 a.m. PST |
Professor Charles Oman wrote two interesting articles on French losses in the Waterloo campaign that include estimates of losses for Ligny: link link Well worth a read. Allan |
| marshalGreg | 04 Dec 2014 12:00 p.m. PST |
@Allan,
I do not see this in those links.
Am I missing something? @JeffsayHi
I need something to give me an idea for such approach and that my decision on the unit strengths has hit a possible target/in a realistic ballpark MG |
 Mserafin | 04 Dec 2014 2:19 p.m. PST |
I checked Bowden (should have bought it when it was new, marshalGreg!) and it doesn't have much about the Prussians. It gives a pretty good break-down of the units that made it to Waterloo, but most of those were 4th Corps and so not at Ligny. The only casualty figures he gives for Ligny are by Corps for the Prussians. Now that I think about it, maybe I should check Hofshroer's books on 1815. I'll try to remember tonight. |
| Oliver Schmidt | 04 Dec 2014 2:59 p.m. PST |
Unfortunately, on Geert van Uythoven's site there is only his translation of the losses of 1st army corps left: link 2nd army corps: link 4th army corps: link I haven't yet seen a similar table for the losses of 3rd army corps. |
| dibble | 04 Dec 2014 8:35 p.m. PST |
JeffsaysHi
Even then if you did have a solid figure for the 3rd Battalion 23rd regiment at 14:00 on the 17th that was almost certainly different by 04:00 on the 18th. So were the 3/23rd at Waterloo alongside the 1/23rd? In fact, who were the 3/23rd? Paul :) |
| Allan F Mountford | 08 Dec 2014 6:58 a.m. PST |
MarshalGreg Click on the first link and then scroll to page 681. If you are still having problems I will see if I can extract the pages and send direct. Allan |
Ligniere  | 08 Dec 2014 11:24 a.m. PST |
Allan,
That chapter on French losses during the Waterloo campaign, from Oman, is very interesting – some of the information is to be expected [high losses amongst the 105th and 45th line at Waterloo, which lost eagles], but there are some genuine surprises too [losses amongst the Young Guard fighting at Plancenoit, which I'd assumed would have been much higher]. Also, in general, the losses amongst the artillery arm appear very light, in comparison to the infantry and cavalry – to be expected, but the ratio is much smaller than I'd have thought. |
| xxxxxxx | 08 Dec 2014 4:06 p.m. PST |
For the French ….
The Martinien: link and its Supplement : link give French officer casulaties – by name. If you have a total casualities figure for a larger formation than the regiment, then you can apply these pro rata to each regiment's officer casualties – and I think you will be very close to the actual losses by regiment. - Sasha |
