"What sales pitch works for you?" Topic

I am going to write this knowing that I will be steering a hornets nest. But I want to share some thoughts as a consumer of wargaming products.I am going to talk about sales pitches, and I apologize to the two gentlemen I am going to use as examples.

We recently got two new rule-sets put out that got some exposure on TMP. One is ChrisBBBs "Bloody Big Battles" and the other is campaigners "Imperial Eagle".

Either out of pure happenstance or as a conscious effort the two said gentlemen followed two very different strategies for promoting their rules. And in my case this had an effect on how much I became interested in them, and even doled out my Turkish Liras (to be converted to Pounds) to buy them.

ChrisBBB primarily advertised his rules via a TMP post, and then via Battle Reports, Scenarios and contributions to other posts. He sold his rules not as something superior than what is out there or "the rules" but instead by making that case that he covers a gap in the existing available rules. He created enthusiasm for them primarily buy suggesting them to people, and via his scenario maps. He also scrupulously avoided negative remarks about other rules, even when people where asking for comparisons.

I another name his strategy was to point out how the system was useful to players, what gaps it covered, and generally speaking by producing an image of a guy you want to play with. He also used synergy. He would not talk about his rules everywhere, but he would post things that would lead people to look at his rules (for example pics of his armies)

It worked for me and I bought the rules.

Campaigner followed a different strategy. He got a board for his rules (which is fine, he pays for it, he might as well get it). He also is very clear that his rules are "the rules". Now it is true I do not delve on the Napoleonic boards much, but it did seem most of the advertising was in the new board. Finally from his description of his rules, reaction to some negative comments, and indeed even in his description TMP Profile, he seems like a person who is definitely very focused on simulation, and superiority of rules. That is fine, but he did not feel to me like a person who I would like playing a game with.

So I did not much look at his rules beyond some skimming.

I am not saying ChrisBBB style is better or superior to Campaigners in general. Only that CrhisBBB's style works better for me.

So what other styles of advertising and creating enthusiasm for a product do you know? What works for you and what does not?

I can't answer this for rules. I don't buy any primarily because most rules out there are the 100/100 rules (100 pages, 100 +bucks, and no one will be playing them in a year.

My sales pitch for my own rules are simple. I give them away when someone asks for them. They're the antithesis of the 100/100 horrors, and the postage is minimal. If people have fun with them that's enough.

To answer your question for other things than rules, for examples in stores, or in conventions are those salesmen who do their business incognito. When a go to dealer bench or site I know what I want, I know what I am looking for, and if I see it, well then it's you're VERY lucky day because I tend to buy in army sized lots. Never know when they're going to pull the plug on the line-- or themelves-- so buy it NOW!

People who come up and bug me with a bitch invariably lose the sale. You can't convince me to buy anything.

I generally don't buy rules sight unseen unless I think they can give me something I lack. If I can't flip through them, I wait for reviews to show up on TMP and, if possible, try to get into a convention game or at least watch part of a game being played. Most rules are a significant investment that I can probably do without.

What works for me.

Demos – preferably youtube but well done, badly done is a death sentence.
Lite Version
AARs.

"… 100/100 rules (100 pages, 100 +bucks, and no one will be playing them in a year."

Complete hyperbole. I know of NO rules which meet this definition, except maybe for the "not played in a year" part. And even that isn't true of many of the high gloss rules out there.

"My sales pitch for my own rules are simple. I give them away when someone asks for them. "

Worth EXACTLY what you pay for them! 8)=

So the best rules cost the most then?

No wonder there are so many billionaire rules authors…

Italian girls with thick accents…like the Fiat500 girl.
She could sell me flip flops in February.

nazrat, have you played Otto´s rules?

To answer the question, I prefer a more word of mouth advertising where I get to see AARs from a variety of gamers, and then from the author a simple description of what I can generally expect from the rules.

I bought Fireball Forward and Chain of Command after watching well-done YouTube demos. I regret neither purchase. I also bought Lasalle, Maurice and BKC after trying the lite versions. Ditto.

Other rules look attractive, but haven't compelled me enough to fork over without knowing what's inside.

Just sayin, but in the era when you can't usually just pick them up and flip through before buying, we need an equivalent experience through demos or other significant sampling online.

Strange,I like thick girls with Italian accents….

I prefer reviews from independent players. I tend to ignore hype from the rules authors themselves as they are obviously keen on their own rules and biased…

Mike

I wait for reviews from other TMPers in general before I buy any rules. The few times I have succumbed to the "New Shiney Syndrome" I invariably have regretted my purchase. I appreciate people who post AARs of their games and the amount of fun it they had have an impact on what I choose to buy. There are a couple of rules writers that I will consider buying sight unseen as my experience with their rules has always been great. Sam Mustafa and Howard Whitehouse both come to mind.

Im partial to buy one get two free.
I also like Fat Dragon's crush-proof guarantee.

Crush proof is Fingers And Toes :-)

I tend to look for independent reviews and AARs, especially here on TMP. Otto's rules are fun, BTW, and well worth having even if he sold them.

What works for me? Recommendations from friends or giving them a go on club night. I tend to find a lot of the online advertorials and suchlike a bit of a turn-off

I'm a sucker for pretty pictures of figures in numbers I'll never be able to afford, painted to a standard I'll never be able to emulate, and played on terrain I'll never have the time to make.

I buy more rules than I'll ever get to play so eye candy always scores well with me.

I'm with OSchmidt. Not really interested in selling rules but i like writing them because I like playing what i write. It's a whole lot cheaper too. Unlike OSchmidt, my distribution scheme is a bit more casual. I put them on my blog. I announce that here, usually with some posts and a bat rep or two and then leave it alone. Anyone is welcome to kick them around.

I do like a few commercial sets as well. Some of the THW offerings are quite nice especially for solo play. DBA, especially 3.0, is a fun diversion. Baron wars is a great little skirmish game that only costs about $3 USD per booklet.

I guess what i am saying is I usually won't be won over by any sales pitches since I am not really looking for rules to buy anymore. I am considering BBB for a set but that would require starting a whole new project. I think that is best left for another time.

I usually ask on TMP, or search TMP (and then ask), and then buy what I find accessible.

Honestly, after as many years of toy soldiers/board war games (when SPI was new the first time)/followed by miniatures war games in the 1970s as I have under my belt trying to sell me anything hat doesn't already interest me is wasted oxygen. I have more than enough rules for all genres that I have kept armies for gaming.

About the only rules I would even vaguely consider buying untried is something by Two Hour Wargames (THW) – very few that have not exceeded my expectations.

I have some not THW "possibles" on my 2015 sheet but all of them share one thing in common – I have played them multiple times and found them acceptable (Two Fat Lardies rules for WW2 Platoon action might get some money in 2015) with no "Oh, there is where it breaks"moments.

There must be AARs to attract me and there (absolutely) must be someone locally to teach me the rules by playing before I add them to my "possibles" list.

Historical rules must (in play) demonstrate they reflect appropriate tactics/grand tactics for the scale of the game without artificial manipulations of the game mechanics.

Science Fiction rules must be consistent with the explicit and implicit "physical" parameters reflected in the fluff/background [if there is one.] As few "liberties" (such as FTL) with reality as possible should be present in the rules/games.

Fantasy rules should allow for "the usual suspects" plus any races I have designed in past campaigns/games to be playable with no "uberarmies" to break the system. Magic should be deadly but not dominant in the games. The scale of the games (Armies through FRPG fights) should be reflected in the mechanics/details of the game.

VSF should be more Victorian and less Retro-modern (the biggest problem with steam punk) in the setting/rules/game play.

I used to buy magazines for the foldout inside.

AARs with lots of pictures of people having fun gets to me.

The Fiat lady would get my attention across the convention sales space.

Independent reviews, links to videos are useful.

I also tend to like to see a U.S. distributor/retail outlet.

Beyond that it has to demonstrate either a real need ( a hole in existing current offerings ) , or state a very concise case as to what makes it distinctive/superior. Something like, "it's similar to our previous rules, but we took out the infantry, and beefed up the vehicle component" was an interesting recent item.

Finally, it is helpful if there is some indication that some real thought and period knowledge went into the enterprise. Probably a couple ways to do this, but links to informative relevant pdfs seems to be a good way to get things started.

One particularly important source for me are these discussion boards where people talk about what rules are available for a time period. And using a "area of interest site: theminiaturespage.com search can pull results up form some ways back. I should also ad that I don't object to game designers commenting on these posts so long as what they say is relevant and polite.

I think the recent ancients rules "Sword & Spear" have done a very good job, their approach being to provide a good central point for information on their website (which includes previews, free army lists, and a link to their forum), and then to actively encourage players to review the rules online. The author has also been a consistent – but not confrontational – presence on TMP. The combination of these factors first brought them to my attention, then gave me enough info to get more interested, and eventually convinced me to buy them (the low price point for the pdf also didn't hurt). Keep in mind that I don't actually even play ancients, but was keeping an eye open for my son!

link

Cheers,

Christopher

I liked talking to the chainmail bikini lady but she wasn't able to talk me into buying one. The same is true of the Fiat girl….. although she never talked to me. :-(

I prefer a fairly detailed description of the game mechanics, followed by a short blow-by-blow AAR. A decent web site with an FAQ is also helpful. If something in those tweaks my interest, I'll buy the rules.

But, I don't just buy rules to play them. I enjoy just reading them for ideas also. I have a lot of rule sets that I have never played but still intend to keep.

None… be friendly and be ready to assist or answer questions if asked. I do not want to be hounded when I am looking. Since often I do not know exactly what I am looking for. When I see it, I will know it.