"Russian Navy in the English Channel" Topic

NATO denies it is a military exercise, but four Russian naval vessels, including a destroyer and an amphibious landing ship, are in the English Channel.

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The cover story is that sea conditions in the area are not good.

Apparently, they are sheltering in the Bay of the Seine River, on the NW Coast of France.

I seem to recall Putin saying that there would be repercussions for non-delivery of that new, French-built, amphibious ship that was being constructed for them. He also said there would be repercussions if the vessel was not delivered to Russia by the end of November (Nov. 27th, IIRC).

So, is this a cutting-out raid for them to seize the vessel from the French?

Merely a way of applying more pressure on the French to reconsider their position, while simultaneously being overtly provocative in the process, like with all the other air and naval sorties being conducted in and around NATO, and other European countries?

I strongly doubt the timing is coincidental.

Almost forgot, the Russian SLBM test was a "success":

link

Seems to depend which story you read.

"A squadron of Russian warships has passed through the English Channel in what the Royal Navy described as a "routine" movement…

…the UK Royal Navy and the French Navy say "it's not unusual" to have Russian warships transiting through the Channel. It's the route they often choose to make their way to the Mediterranean. The Royal Navy was aware of this transit and sent HMS Tyne to monitor.

Yea, I guess it depends upon which report you want to believe, and/or the spin being put out by various governments.

Conducting drills for "repelling air attacks" and "at sea fuel replenishment" are a bit different than sheltering in place.

Apparently, the Northern Fleet vessels sailed through the narrowest portion of the English Channel, as well, before holding in place off of NW France.

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I don't recall any reports from recent times of Russian vessels holding exercises in the English Channel, but admit that the international news coverage over here is rather poor.

And, you've got to admit that Putin's timing and threat to France, over their captive amphibious vessel they're not releasing to the Russians, as originally contracted to do, is certainly interesting.

Miley's supposed pregnancy is all over the news though.

Hmmm, this is interesting.

I didn't realize Russian naval crewmembers were already training aboard the French-built amphibious vessel.

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Makes me wonder if they are still there, or, on one of those Russian naval vessels parked just offshore, conducting "ASW exercises", amongst some of the other ones mentioned above?

So, a "Missile-Boats of October" scenario sequel, to liberate an Amphibious naval vessel, in November, or December?

I hope someone in France doesn't forget, and accidentally leave the "ignition keys" in the Vladivostok (yes, I imagine they don't really have those – it is an expression), since that would be very embarrassing, yet again.

well, yesterday's news were that somebody had "stolen" electronics equipment from the 2d "Mistral". I guess investigation of this unfortunate incident will delay the hand-off of the ship for a couple of years ;)

It's an international waterway, so what's the big deal?

It isn't a big deal, if nothing comes of it, though I do find it very interesting.

Der Bild has reported that Putin is meeting, or has met with numerous conservative EU groups from various countries, and apparently has a plan to take over all of Europe, right down to Portugal.

Granted, I think that is pretty far-fetched, but also perhaps an insight into Putin's thinking, and plans for a greater Russian empire, once again.

I wonder if he'll be able to leverage his energy weapon, and the desires of others in various countries to achieve it, or at least part of his plan?

Supposedly, he's cut off coal deliveries to Ukraine, which is apparently more important to the citizenry than natural gas. My guess is they'll be given a "deal" to negotiate on Russia's terms, or freeze to death this Winter.

40% of Germans think Putin's takeover of Crimea was warranted.

So, other than those minor issue, "…nothing to see here. Move along…..".

Putin can't "cut off" coal deliveries to Ukraine because they haven't ever needed to buy coal from Russia before.

Ukraine was self-sufficient in coal before this whole business started.

Here's an article from Reuters:

November 12 They decide that they will have to buy from Russia:
reuters.com/article/2014/11/12/ukraine-crisis-coal-idUSL6N0T23Q220141112

November 26 – They are "cut off"
reuters.com/article/2014/11/26/ukraine-crisis-coal-idUSL6N0TG19820141126

Apparently the coal deal with South Africa had some problems:

bloombergview.com/articles/2014-11-12/winter-is-coming-to-ukraines-energy-supply

Even in Soviet times the conquest of Europe was not in agenda of Soviet Union apart of rumored discussions in the HQ in 1945.
I just love how half of the posters from the US are trying to scare the stupid Europeans who don't understand a terrible danger they're in, while another half consider any conventional war between NATO and Russia would be super easy for the defenders of true democracy ;)
The truth, however, is somewhere in between. Russia can not hope to conquer Europe military unless nukes start falling, but it negates original idea of the conquest. There's no even token support for Russia in Europe – you don't really think that these conservative parties will be taking arms and welcoming their Russian overlords?

It is also interesting to read that Russia is that evil that it is not going to give the coal to Ukraine for free…especially when Ukrainian parliament and government were so far trying to stop buying coal from the enemy, i.e. Russia and Donetsk/Luhansk. For your info, Ukraine was self-sufficient in coal bcs. these two regions were mining it. Right now, about half of the mines are not operational and the government is refusing to buy from the rebels.
And also in the news, apart of completely cutting water supply to Crimea, Ukraine also stopped selling electricity to the peninsula…

Barin1,

Don't forget that according to Ukrainian government those are not "rebels", they are "terrorists".

Also, according to McCane, one of the major senators in the US government, the way to stop the madness in Ukraine is to "sell them our weapons". His words.

So, Russian ships in international waters constitutes clear and present danger to Peace and Stability in the world. Anything and everything Russian press reports is Putin's propaganda. Anything and everything that American press reports is the GOD's truth. So you should only listen/watch/read American media and only those that reflect YOUR point of view and don't offer alternative interpretation.

Barin – we know how dangerous Putin is.

But we're content to trash your economy rather than do anything rash.

Americans like throwing their weight around, secure in the knowledge that payback rarely makes it to their shores.

They also seem to forget the EU actually has you lot demographically outnumbered by some margin :)

We prefer to play a longer game.

Russia is that evil that it is not going to give the coal to Ukraine for free

No question of free…. "DTEK said in a statement that the suspension came without warning and that Ukraine had made advance payments to its Russian suppliers under the terms of their contract."

en.itar-tass.com/economy/761491

…when Ukrainian parliament and government were so far trying to stop buying coal from the enemy

I think you will find that Lughnask and Donetsk are currently still occupied Ukrainian territory (there is no official recognition of them being anything other than Ukrainian territory), therefore the coal on it at this time is still Ukrainian? Perhaps a bit much to occupy the land, then have to pay to get back your own resources.

And also in the news, apart of completely cutting water supply to Crimea, Ukraine also stopped selling electricity to the peninsula…

Well that is allegedly Russia now, so I guess it's up to Russia to renegotiate the contract (which they have not yet done). At this time there is no contract for Ukraine to supply electricity to Russia territory (and in the face of threats of coal and gas stoppages from Russia I would assume not much incentive either).

They also seem to forget the EU actually has you lot demographically outnumbered by some margin

Don't forget that the EU is not one monolithic block with one agenda or universal policies. This is not the United States of Europe.

The concept of EU is under attack in a lot of places including the UK. The EU itself started losing momentum years before GFC when people and countries realised how much sovereignty they lose to EU.

Also there's chunks of the EU that are hurting a lot too in the sanctions – basically most of Eastern Europe as well as Finland and even Germany.

And EU as a whole has not recovered from last financial crisis and the conflict with Russia is just adding to the grief.

So whilst the West-Russian conflict might help American national interests, it just bleeds Europe out even more.

The joys of being a junior partner and having someone else foot the bill for your defence.

Well that is allegedly Russia now, so I guess it's up to Russia to renegotiate the contract (which they have not yet done). At this time there is no contract for Ukraine to supply electricity to Russia territory (and in the face of threats of coal and gas stoppages from Russia I would assume not much incentive either).

It's a great way to get the locals to hate the government in Kiev and further side with the Russians. But then bombing your own cities. conducting purges and stopping pensions to people living in those areas does the same.

It's clear that the government in Kiev is happy to push the ethnic divide just as the Russians are.

Poroshenko doesn't come across as a unifier of the Ukrainian people. He in fact comes across as a populist tyrant – much like Putin in fact.

Bear in mind that the areas of Lughansk and Donetsk still under Ukrainian control are not affected, only those parts of those two regions not currently under there control.

But then whats the other choice? Continue to pay into an area under control by someone else? Would seem a very strange thing to do…