"One ring... scale to rule them all... said the friend" Topic

This is not a desire to come to a "perfect scale" but it is based on a non-war gamer question – "Why are there so many incomplete and different sized miniatures for games?"

This was a result of a comment I made on a poll thread.

Below is a partial quote of what i said there:

"… see different scales for some things, (land combat – 15/25+mm for skirmish, 6/10/15/25+mm for small battles such as Platoons/Companies, and 3/6mm for larger battles,) but it seems that Aerial (or possibly naval) might tend towards a single scale preference for frequently is more one model is one plane/ship gaming.

Part of the issue to me is that speed changes make problems if you are looking for one family of rules for WW1 through today. I see Air War 1918 and Air War C21 but as for the WW2 era there isn't a set of rules that crosses the gap from the same producer.

Ditto the Wings AT War series (Duel of Eagles, [WW1], Desert Spitfires [1948-1949], Wings Over Suez (1956], Thud Ridge [1965-1972], Flames above the Falklands [1982] has a WW2 gap.

Wings OF War/Wings of Glory has a WW1/WW2 set but no Jets (that I know of) and this compounded by two different scale miniatures (1/144 and 1/200?) too.

Oooh Shiny or To Each Their Own I guess…"

Okay, help me here – my response was that the high speed differences between 1914 and 1973 (and later) makes it difficult to have a family of rules (much less one set) that can cover the speed differences and technological changes in aircraft, (ships to a different degree perhaps,) easily.

I also mentioned that there was a whole history of independent development of miniatures for "many reasons" to explain the different sizes of land miniatures that philosophically carried over to aircraft (and (I suspect) naval warfare (aka floating targets.)

I felt these four boards were (was) sufficient cross posting to cover most of the appropriate historical arenas without going over board, sorry InterWar and other boards members if you feel slighted.

'Cos we're an awkward bunch of gits who can't agree on anything?

You are correct about air war scales: the increasing speeds of the aircraft and range of air to air weaponry makes "one size fits all" utterly impractical and almost impossible. I suppose you could play your modern jets in a gymnasium, but how many gamers have access to such?…

Great War Ace, interestingly I bought some 1/300th WW1 aircraft to supplement/replace my beloved 1/600th for an different reason – keeping the top wings (don't start me on triplanes) on!

But yes, I find the whole one set of rules/one scale pretty difficult for WW1 through today even fiddling with different relative speed scales.

I suppose SSMs for naval warfare have had a similar influence.

Cerdic, true – perhaps – but not something I want to promote to those outside the hobby.

It's more than grumpiness among the grognards..

There are advantages and disadvantages to all scales and players choose based on their priorities.

Individual tastes also change over time and the technological and artistic skills of the people making the figures. In 10 years or less all kinds of things will be possible that were not before due to 3d printing.

You might as well say why are there so many models of car when you basically only need 3-4 types to cover everyone's needs. Not a perfect parallel but you get the idea.

Skarper, Good example. Appreciated.

The Wings AT War has two sets for WW II "Scramble For Britain" and "A Mighty Fortress". Of course while these rules are all part of the same family they are totally independent of each other with no cross over between sets.

Fatman

I think I was mistaking scale of models for "ground" scale?

"We" use 1/72 scale models almost exclusively, or did, until these affordable small scale pre painted models started to proliferate. Now one of our guys is putting up more of those, while the diehards are continuing to use our decades old 1/72 stuff. It looks weird together, but I try and ignore the visual dichotomy.

Modern jets use a very large ground scale. I don't play jets, so I don't know the scale, but "Sailor Steve" or "PVernon" undoubtedly do. I do know that the scale for playing modern jets is larger than that for playing 2WW, which is larger than for playing "inter-war", or the Thirties and so forth, which is larger than for playing 1WW: which I do know, it's 1:200, or c. 25mm = 5 meters or 16.4'. "Thirties" is 1:400. And interestingly, before he died, Rocky Russo introduced that scale into early 2WW, up through c. Battle of Britain, by which point any small scale fights were pretty much over and done with. The 2WW fighters certainly feel a lot more "peppy" in that scale than the normal 2WW scale, which I don't remember, but suspect it is 1:600 or even 1:800….

I like 1/300 aircraft for anything up to the Korean war, but modern jets are just flat too big in 1/300. So my modern birds are 1/600.

I love both 1/300th and 1/600th scale modern jets for gaming.

I'm also working on acquiring some 1/144th – 1/180th scale ones as well, for the same thing, since they look so nice in the larger scale.

Of course, as you mention, ground-scale is really the issue for realistic movement and weaponry ranges. As gamers, we need to compromise a lot on that, in order to have a decent battle on the tabletop (note, in the past, I've used the floor of a large living room for some games, successfully, to permit a lot more maneuvering room).

Even 1/600th scale jets are overly large, when you consider that their cannons can fire at ranges of half a mile, up to a full mile, accurately, in some cases. That works out to be 10 feet, at a 1:1 ratio in even the small 1/600th scale.

Obviously, missiles that can fire a city block, or more away need to have their performance scrunched down a bit, too.

So, given that, I suggest you just choose the scale(s) of aircraft miniatures you prefer to look at for your games, use the largest gaming area you can reasonably set up, and enjoy.

No use fretting over the "small stuff", since the movement and weapons ranges for your games will most likely be considerably compressed anyway, unless you have access to an unused airbase, and laser rangefinders for your games.

WW1, 1/72, its all I ever do in Aerial stuff, and it looks great. It was, however, just an excuse to make those glorious Airfix kits again!

John

With the low speeds, tight turning radii, short weapons ranges, and small airframes, I'd want to use a fairly large scale for the airframes. 1/72 sounds about perfect, IMO.