"When did Hastai stop using the Hasta?" Topic

I know that the Romans transitioned from a hoplite style force to the maniple, but when after that transition did the Hastati go from being spearmen equipped with a Hasta to swordsmen? It would seem that if they continued to be called Hastati they must have used it for some time, though most rules have a pretty cut and dry date for the transition time from hoplite strait to maniple with gladius and pila, giving no time for Hastati to use the spear that was their name sake.

I'm sure someone more knowledgable will put me right, but I always think of Camillan hastati as actually using the hasta, and the Polybian reforms switching them to gladius and pilum.

This Wikipedia article supports Dom's view:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastati

To answer this question, it may be helpful to realize that there was the hasta longa (long spear, thrusting spear) and something more akin to the hasta velitaris (a throwing spear). There is a passage in the oldest existing Roman writer, "Pater" Ennius, written c. 220 BC that describes the Roman military at the time before Pyrrhus that says in the older times that the Hastati attacked with their spears "in a rain/shower of iron" (I'm paraphrasing from Ancient Warfare, the issue on Pyrrhus, which quotes the Latin and a good translation much better than me here on vacation).

This heavily suggests that the Hastati were named not after the hasta longa but that after that throwing spear (which may be the same as the hasta velitaris). At the same time Dionysus contrasts this with the Principes who would finish the battle, attacking the enemy with their long spears.

All in all, I take it that the Camillan army consisted of the Hastati had throwing spear and sword; principes long spear and sword; and the triarii changed very little (and of course Leves instead of Velites). Other experts talk about other troop types whose evidence is much in dispute. But imagine a Roman army without the pilum!

Seems that after Pyrrhus both the principes and hastati adopted the pilum but the hastati kept their old name, which is not unusual for the conservative Romans.

I think Mars Ultor is right, with the following slight caveats:

- Ennius is writing a bit later than "c.220". His "Annals" go up to the 180s; so he was writing after the Hannibalic War (in which he had apparently served). This means that his mention of hastati – "hastati spargunt hastas. fit ferreus imber" – is probably the oldest surviving.

- There is no hard evidence to suggest that the hasta which the hastati threw in the Ennius passage was anything other than a pilum. "Hasta" could be used as a generic for "any sort of spear": thus Servius "pilum proprie est hasta Romana", "the pilum is the spear (hasta) proper to the Romans".

- Therefore, the hastati probably didn't "adopt" the pilum: from the first time that soldiers were referred to as hastate, they threw that throwing-hasta known as pilum.

Fair enough and thank you everyone for the answers! They make a lot of sense.

Duncan Head in "Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars" notes that the Pilum was being used by the early 4th century B.C. based on Camillus mentioning it in his accounts of his victories over the Guals.

Williamb, It must be someone else mentioning Camillus, because he did not write anything himself (or if he did it long gone). As for using the pilum at this time (early 4th century) to defeat the Gauls, I would consider that quite unlikely since the Roman army defeated by the Gauls at that time is usually identified with the phalanx style army dumped after the Gallic defeat of Rome. (And there are many who question Camillus' subsequent defeat of these Gauls in Livy since it's such a face-saving story for the Romans.) Still, Duncan Head is…Duncan Head; and I'll be careful about contradicting him.

Gurkhan, thanks for the thoughtful feedback; I've been thinking about this Camillan army for some time so that I can adjust my Polybian army to fight a Pyrrhic army. You got me to take a closer look at that Ross Cowan article in AW showing the archaeological evidence for the pilum.

Main problem with using the term "pilum" is that it can refer to a number of thrown types: proto-pila evolution, the lighter type, and the heavier riveted type. After reviewing the article, I would gladly concede that the Romans of Camillan times probably indeed used a pilum, but probably not the heavier version most people think of.

Don't know if you've seen the article, but here it is: link Seems to me to indicate that the pilum was in use in various forms from the 6th century and onward by various groups (Samnite, Lucanians, even Italian Gauls – see comparisons in the article). Most appear to be the lighter pilum type with round socket. The heavier riveted one is dated c. 225 BC. I'd say that if Camillan Romans used any type of pilum it would be this lighter one. But you're literally right – it's different from a throwing spear (I just wonder how different in its effect).

But i think we can easily agree that hastati were likely NOT armed with the hasta thrusting spear.

Yes, Mars U., I've seen the Cowan article in AW, and very interesting it was too. Previously, I had thought that there was no evidence that the Samnites used pila, despite the tradition that the Romans had copied it from them. But it does look as if they may have used some sort of pilum-like weapon, though I would have called most of those Samnite weapons "long-socketed spearheads" rather than pila proper.

Peter Connolly way back in the day illustrated both a long-socketed Etruscan pilum from Vulci, probably 5th century, and what he thought were meant for tanged pila in an Etruscan tomb-painting, the Giglioli tomb from Tarquinii, which is probably 4th century. So it's possible that both main types of pilum were in use in Italy even before Camillus.

The short answer is nobody knows. There just aren't primary sources that would say. Around 300BC is probably a good guess. Some would conjecture the sometime after Pyrrhus returned from Sicily to Italy.

I would go with the post-Pyrrhic times for transition unless there is a reference to Pyrrhic Wars indicating a switch. Otherwise, somewhere from 275 to 260-ish the principes discarded the hasta longa for pilum and no real change for the hastati (somewhere along the way the pilum gets heavier, earliest archaeological evidence seems to be 225 but probably earlier). "Nobody knows for sure" is still true, but I personally am a believer that we can make well-reasoned educated guesses, form a picture, and move on. Otherwise we're always stuck second guessing ourselves.

It also could be sometime after 390BC when Brennus' Gauls besieged Rome. This seems to be the point where Rome decided that a Hoplite Phalanx was not such a good idea. The "switch" may have come immediately after with the Hastati line giving up their long spear and the Princepes and Triari retaining them. This would have added some much needed flexibility. So, anywhere from 390BC to 260BC is a reasonable guess.