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"Water Fall-in" Topic

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Rotundo10 Nov 2014 7:59 a.m. PST

Sunday morning was interesting. I had no water, I mean none. I am hearing there were discounts given to some. I would like to see how many. I did not get one, I was ok with this until I heard some were given. Now, of course I want one. I live in Philadelphia and go to every con there. I stay in the Host whenever possible. I am annoyed and feel slighted. Anyone else?

zippyfusenet10 Nov 2014 8:08 a.m. PST

I had a two night reservation at the Host, Friday and Saturday nights. On Sunday morning I walked up to the desk to check out, and complained that there was no water in the room that morning. The desk clerk agreed, admitted that the water was out for the whole motel.

I said, politely and firmly, "I think a price adjustment would be in order." Without batting an eye he gave me $50 USD off the bill.

You have to ask. Try calling the desk. Being annoyed doesn't help, the key is polite and firm.

Rotundo10 Nov 2014 8:25 a.m. PST

Just did, no answer. I was waiting until I was at a point where I was reasonable. Screaming at a twenty year old girl over a phone is stupid. I wanted some back ground to use against them. I have already ordered my Cold Wars room and I am prepared to back out if this is not satisfied. Thank you Zippy.

Dervel Fezian10 Nov 2014 8:49 a.m. PST

Wow, we left early Sunday.. must have been before they lost water?

The Host is still a great place to game, but it was literally falling down around us (ceiling tiles – more than one in our hallway alone)…

Wonder how much longer before they bulldoze it?

historygamer10 Nov 2014 8:52 a.m. PST

The decline of the Host continues. I really wish HMGS would move one of the cons back to the Ike, if for nothing else than to have another venue. It wasn't perfect either, but then again, none of the current facilities are.

Yep, water went out. I remember when the power went out and the toilets won't flush some years ago.

Was it just me, or did anyone else notice all the empty tables and areas in the dealer hall? Based on that alone, perhaps HMGS could start looking for smaller venues that are newer (nicer).

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 8:53 a.m. PST

Same here. I got up at six Sunday and checked out. Had a shower with plenty of hot water.

One question – was this the Host or the water company's issue?


Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 9:00 a.m. PST

The loss of water appears to have been an issue at the Host only.

The Ike would be nice if they haven't gone Vegas yet.

historygamer10 Nov 2014 9:18 a.m. PST

Not hot water problems – no cold water! The water was scalding hot. This was before 0900.

Went to dinner at Texas Road House across the street Friday a little before 5pm and waited over 20 minutes for a table.

I haven't made a reseravtion yet for CW, not sure if it will be the Host (for sheer convenience) or somewhere else.

49mountain10 Nov 2014 9:32 a.m. PST

Dervel – I absolutely agree on the Host falling apart. Why we entered into a long term agreement with them is beyond me. And we must move one of the conventions outta there! I would prefer a venue in MD, but I think any place would be better.

flicking wargamer10 Nov 2014 9:53 a.m. PST

I am sure they will have a great deal of trouble getting someone else to stay there, and lose untold numbers of nights sleepless worrying about where you are staying, if you cancel your reservation. Good luck.

In other news, there is a room now available at the Host for next year!

Personal logo McKinstry Supporting Member of TMP Fezian10 Nov 2014 9:54 a.m. PST

Anyplace but the Ike. The current ownership is apparently letting it fall apart since their failure to get the casino license and the room rates are down into the sub slum level and the food and service sucked much more than the Host on their best day. Gettysburg yes, Ike never.

historygamer10 Nov 2014 10:01 a.m. PST

I had heard the Ike had new owners (finally) and were putting money into the place. I'll see if I can't stop by on an upcoming trip to take a look.

Disco Joe10 Nov 2014 10:09 a.m. PST

Different venues cost money. Are you willing to pay more for that? And your idea of moving one of the cons out has happened with Historicon and that place isn't the best either.

historygamer10 Nov 2014 10:14 a.m. PST

Okay, quick online review of the Ike reveals an even worse house of horrors. Okay, stratch that one off the list.

Disco Joe: We obviously don't need all the space at the Host. I saw dozens of empty tables, empty dealer area space. So a smaller venue that actually fits what we now need may not be more expensive. Could be more, could be the same, could be less. And, it depends on whether you are rolling the rooms into the equation of the gaming/dealer space on the value of the place.

One other thing about the Host. So do they have anything stronger than a 40 watt light bulb? Just asking. :-)

historygamer10 Nov 2014 10:20 a.m. PST

Oh, and you also have to weigh HMGS taking less profit in exchange for a nicer venue as part of your equation too. Last time I looked all their cons were turning a healthy profit, some of five figures.

zippyfusenet10 Nov 2014 10:37 a.m. PST

The cold water at the Host, not the hot water, went out about 08:15 Sunday morning. I rolled out of bed about 07:30, had cold water for coffee, for one toilet flush, to brush teeth and shave, but not for a shower and not for a second flush (eeeewww). I could still get a small amount of scalding hot water from the sink.

I only saw the dealer area Saturday and Sunday. It looked full up to me. I know that one or a few of the dealers were invited to take over tables that had been empty; they rose to the challenge and filled the place up. I couldn't walk through it all in one go, I had to sit down and take a break. (Old, fat, disgracefully out-of-shape. Gonna work on that.)

I don't get East every year for the cons, in fact I don't think I've been in ten years. Fall In looked bigger than I expected, a real mob scene. Lancaster restaurants were completely over-run Saturday night. At 18:30 Golden Corral had a line out the door and it wasn't moving. We tried another place, who offered to seat us at 20:00. We could only get tables at the Waffle House, which wasn't so bad (I like grits) but wasn't what we had set out for. It was a mob scene, a cattle stampede such as I've rarely seen.

My thanks to the crew who organized and ran Fall In. I had a blast, hope to get to to another HMGS-East con much sooner than next decade.

I would take my road trip to some other town than Lancaster. I would stay in some other resort than the Host. On the other hand, the dim light and faint aroma of flatulence throughout the building are for me a memorable part of the ambience of HMGS-East. I'll put up with it if the Host continues to be the best available venue.

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 10:51 a.m. PST

I didn't realize the Ike had gone so far down hill. That's too bad, I rather liked the place.

DeRuyter10 Nov 2014 10:56 a.m. PST

After one too many moldy rooms my group bailed on the Host and for the last 5+ years have stayed at the Country Inn & Suites next door.

historygamer10 Nov 2014 11:02 a.m. PST

Oh, and our toilet broke. Apologies to the cleaning staff, but blame my roommate. :-)

Zippy the dealer hall was light, more so when the flea markets opened up.

I saw a couple of empty tables in the dealer area which I suspect meant no-shows. They don't usually set up tables at random. :-)

Doesn't all make it a bad con. I had fun. But, the Host is barely working and the numbers seemed down. I see that in other historical hobbies too, so not necessarily just an HMGS thing, or anything they are doing wrong.

historygamer10 Nov 2014 11:05 a.m. PST

Recent reviews on the Ike:


Yikes. Run. :-(

historygamer10 Nov 2014 11:06 a.m. PST

For the record, I loved going to the Ike, but it had issues then too, and they only seemed to get worse over the years there.

Poniatowski Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 1:16 p.m. PST

It is VERy unfortunate yes… I like the Host and woudl liek to see the owners put soem money into it.. I especially feel bad for the employees who have to deal with all of the grief bacause of the place coming down around them….

As it stands, I believe CW & F-I! are locked in until at least 2017 barring any catastrophies.

Now… I would prefer a venue further west. A move East is stupid.. make it longer for a majority of the membership? The demographs show that most of the members are NOT all up in the I-95 area any more.

I agree with venue and pricing…. something needs to be done, the Host needs fixed. I didn't have much time to nottice much.. I ran my butt off all weekend….

Now, as for 2 items near and dear….
1. if you haven't heard of don't know this yet… there are many reasons for this happening, but Fall-In! is the fastest growing show.. numbers were up this year even from last year… preliminary numbers have it up about 100… not a lot, BUT… F-I!! has been growing every year since it got to the Host. In fact, pre-reg 2014 was larger than CW 2014 pre-reg numbers by over 200 I was told.

I believe last year we had 1750 for Fall-In! total and this year it was higher almost 1900…. I asked "are you sure"… and was told yes. I know.. it looked sparse, but the numbers are there… amnd, well.. these are definitely fake or inflated.

2. the vendor hall…. yes, sparse… a lot fo bigger vemndors cut their booth space down… we actually had 50.. and that is more than last year I believe… the thing, is the space…. now, most of you know The War Store does not do Fall-In! any more because fo their own show and there are a couple others who don't do it or have reduced their footprints…. this looks devastating for sure and saddens me, but having just the Warstore back would amost eliminate the extra space problem. I do not forsee them coming back though.

Fall-In! sold out of tees and programs all but disappeared by Friday night… I actually increased the number of shirts this year over last… they all went.

3. Table/gaming space…. somehting most of you might not realize…. every game is given an hour for set up and take down and depending upon how fast the GM's do this, you could see a lot of tables empty for almost 2 hours at a time. Lots of games start about the same times and usually run the standard 4 hours… which means the appearance of lots of empty space every 4 hours for almost 2 in between events. I try to have the EM look at the game type and if it is a naval game, only leave that hour beteen events…

I can post the saddle blankets….
Events were as follows:

Thurs…. sparse, but we even had some running from morning until late night…

Fri:very light morning, but from mid day on untl the night.. there was no "empty" spaces…. according to what was submitted…. all tables were assigned.

Sat: well, sat was busy all day long, but events really didn't take off until 9ish.. tables lightened up at night

Sun: same as usual….

Now… as usual, there were many cancelled games. there always are… that is how it is. 8-10 events can really give the appearance of an empty D-fink. AND, it always seems liek it is events in the D-fink that wind up being the cancelled ones… the club rooms rarely if ever have cancellations… and the odd hallway or other small rooms are usually not cancelled… it really is an odd phenom.

That is all I have for now…. The Host needs a lot of work…

WaltOHara10 Nov 2014 1:37 p.m. PST


Personal logo Jlundberg Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 1:45 p.m. PST

I had a trickle of scalding water at 8:30. The host is noticeably down at heels. I am still a fan of the experience since it makes a big difference that my wife can take the car and disappear to shop. leaving me at the Host. The food is generally much better than the onsite food at Fredericksburg. My knees make it such that a quick trip to the room for lie down helps a lot.

Poniatowski Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 1:53 p.m. PST

Thanks Walt!!!

Remove the buckets and it looks ok…. :)


If this helps guys, even a little, THANK YOU all for comming, due to my staffing iussue, I was running around crazy the whole weekend… probably unnecessarily because my managers had things well in hand…. I didn't even nottice most of the bad stuff everyone else did… I was that busy.


kalgaloth10 Nov 2014 2:30 p.m. PST

i complained about our toilet not working, the air in the room not working, and no water. they comped me 1 night.

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 2:54 p.m. PST

FWIW, our room was fine so far as I know, has been last several times at the Host. Go figure.


HornetsNestMinis10 Nov 2014 4:38 p.m. PST

For what it's worth, my room had new bedding and drapes. So while not totally renovated, it has been improved. The wifi is horrible but did kinda work. None of the ice machines in the hotel worked but the front desk filled my cooler twice with no questions asked. The meal I had at the Legands resturant was overpriced and truly horrible, but the usual fair of hotdogs and BBQ were decent and fairly priced at $11. USD The convienice of gaming at the Host, with easy loading through the Distlefink side door still makes it my favorite spot for larger cons. HMGS is largely given the run of the place. They roll coolers out with beer and water for gamers. It seems to me it's give and take. I'm there to game till I drop and hit the dealer hall not relax in a spa. We did check out before the water went out but I hit the road without a shower anyway.

kayjay10 Nov 2014 9:51 p.m. PST

Hmmm Ok …
The Ike – we have asked them for a proposal several years now – nothing.

Contracts: We have contracts thru 2017 but unlike the old ones we can cnx 2016 without severe penalties. We could cnx 2017 with no penalty.

water – the Host has a reservoir where they take city water and store it. The pumps (which are new) supply the line pressure to the rooms and the hot water heaters. the reservoir has a sensor that tells it when to let more water in from the city. It failed and the reservoir level fell to 1 ft (normally 10') at which the new pumps tripped on the low input pressure. You had hot water for a while as the HW heaters – just like at your house – have a tank with a fair amount of water in them. As those ran out I hope they went off line or the Host will be replacing those units if they burnt out.

Kevin Kelley one time certified steam engineer

rmcaras Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2014 9:54 p.m. PST

"As it stands, I believe CW & F-I! are locked in until at least 2017 barring any catastrophies."

not really. There is an expectation of performance on the part of the hotel. Not having water, prevalent leaks et al can become the basis of challenging their ability to "host" your event to a reasonable and expected standard.

Tell them in general, most of our attendees expect indoor and working plumbing. And some even take showers.

Do you or anyone from HMGS, sit down with the hotel staff and review the events/issues of the convention? Some restitution/relief or at the very least performance guarantees to correct problems before the next time ought to be in order…otherwise you walk, and hold them accountable for damages for having to negotiate a new site under short time deadlines.

Rotundo11 Nov 2014 5:46 a.m. PST

Sorry guys, I did not want this thread to become the political "go/nogo" thread on the HOST. I just wanted to see if they gave out discounts. I called them and did not reach the manager. I will attempt to again today.

Poniatowski Supporting Member of TMP11 Nov 2014 5:52 a.m. PST

rmc… yes, actually.. we do meet and I am working via email now wiht them. I will do what I can and or hand it to the BoD as I am only a lowly CD, not BoD.

And… you are very funny sir!!!!
You said…..
"And some even take showers."

I applaud your humor! I wish I coudl have seen you at the show just to say hello!

kalgaloth11 Nov 2014 3:37 p.m. PST


They should at least credit you a day. Let us know how you fair.

historygamer11 Nov 2014 7:56 p.m. PST

Maybe that bucket in the photo was for those wanting cold water Sunday morning. How thoughtful of them. :-)

Dervel Fezian14 Nov 2014 9:06 a.m. PST

LOL, I took the same picture, but decided not to post it…

Every hall I walked had a bucket or two over the weekend, including the lobby and the ballroom. Which I don't understand because the rain stopped, unless it was just seepage from puddles on the roof. Several ceiling tiles which were bulging with water fell during the weekend on my route from the room to the gaming area.

historygamer14 Nov 2014 1:06 p.m. PST

I think HMGS can ride the Host till it slips under the waves, but I sure hope they have a backup plan, as at some point the following will happen:

a.) the place is sold and the buildings torn down for new development

b.) the place is sold and closed for major renovations – ala the VFCC

c.) It keeps muddling along till it collapses – forget this one, either one of the above will happen sooner or later.

Double G Supporting Member of TMP14 Nov 2014 1:39 p.m. PST

I've been attending HMGS conventions in Lancaster since 1997; haven't stayed at the Host, never plan on staying at the Host.

It's really not set up for what we need, it's not a convention center, it's a hotel with a series of function rooms downstairs and a tennis barn that is falling apart that gets passed off as a dealer hall.

The Ike? Please; calling it a dump is being courteous, @#$#hole is more like it, All Stars is literally falling apart at the moment.

I guess the VFCC is out due to cost, although I think both CW and FI are small enough now where you could fit them in there without a problem.

Once the Host is no longer an option, not sure where you go.

But I am sure the arguements over the new location once it happens are going to be fun here with the usual suspects whinging on about the new location.

Can't wait.

historygamer14 Nov 2014 2:47 p.m. PST

" I think both CW and FI are small enough now where you could fit them in there without a problem."

You can include Hcon in there too, as they are all roughly the same size now.

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP14 Nov 2014 10:31 p.m. PST

Is it just me and my deteriorating vision, or does that bucket in the photo above have a lid on it?

BTCTerrainman Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2014 7:31 a.m. PST

Tumbleweed, I think it is your deteriorating vision. :-)

historygamer16 Nov 2014 7:22 a.m. PST

The one in my hallway sure didn't have a lid. I did see some guys try to do a naval game in it though. Creative.

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