"Why do only French wargaming figures get to wear greatcoats?" Topic

I've tinkered with the Napoleonic period but what's put me off from really diving into it to a great extent is the apparent complete dearth of greatcoat-wearing figures for the opposing armies of the French.

More than once at a game show, I've witnessed on a display table massed French infantry formations moving against opponents entirely kitted out in smart summer dress uniforms, which personally jars with me, being an ultra- historical realist at heart. Surely this makes no sense? The Imperial Russian Commissariat for instance would not have asked it's troops to 'make do' with their simplified summer campaign uniforms when the temperature dropped to near or below freezing? Several major Napoleonic campaigns were fought in the depths of winter – 1805 and 1813 to name but two – and provision for warm weather clothing by all the belligerents would surely have been made, but war game manufactures seem to have completely ignored reality, at least from a non-French perspective

Several manufactures in different scales have brought out figure codes/boxes featuring French infantry (although not artillery or cavalry for some reason – apparently they must suffer like their enemies!)in greatcoats over the years but none as far as I know have bothered to provide their adversaries with them. Why bother with just the French and not other nations?

If anyone has spotted any manufacturers bringing out Russians, Austrians, Prussians etc. in greatcoats, please don't be a stranger.

Foundry do some lovely Russians in great coats and Knuckle duster do British in their 1812 range.
Didn't the French in the Peninsular often wear a great coat as a matter of course or was it a lighter coat?
I do take your point though -it would make painting a lot quicker, that's for sure.
I'd like to see some troops dressed in the actual rags that I keep reading about!!

Will be available in November..

At Austerlitz the French Guard got their greatcoats two days after the battle, units fighting in great coats came up in the later Napoleonic period.
Look at the Bavarian infantry in the winter battle at Bar sur Aube in 1814, the wear uniform coats for the battle.

Mashrewba: Thanks for the info. The French did indeed wear lighter long linen dust coats in the 1808 Vimiero campaign but I believe that that was a one-off.

Sho: That's what is needed exactly. I notice that your sculpts include uncovered Kiewers with cords, which is historically spot on. For 15/18mm figures, that's some amazing craftsmanship you've got going on there. Lovely.

Apart from one battle in the War of 1812 I don't think the British ever wore their greatcoats in battle but oddly enough lots of manufacturers seem to make them.

If you game in 15mm, figures in greatcoats are pretty easy to find. Minifigs do figures for all the major nations in greatcoats. link

Plenty of Russians in greatcoats.

Minifigs produced Austrians in greatcoats. It's not as rare as you think.

I suppose in 10mm and smaller you could field masses of blokes in coats and shakos and they could be anyone you want -might be missing out on something here!!!

Hinchcliffe has them for both infantry and cavalry.

French infantry wore greatcoats in June Waterloo campaign, besides the earlier cold weather campaigns.

I have over a thousand Russians in greatcoat, also.

Elite miniatures does Russians in greatcoats

In general though I agree with the OP – not many (except for Russians) available in greatcoats. Definitely strange.

I've actually got a number of British in greatcoats for my Peninsula army.

Did not Wellington order greatcoats to be stored prior to the Waterloo campaign? Those grey rolls on the backpacks are blankets………

As noted, lots of non-French in greatcoats – mostly Austrians and Russians and a few Prussian figs – about half of my Russians are in greatcoats

I think I read somewhere that the French at Vitoria 1813 were wearing long light-coloured dust coats – so 1808 may not have been a one-off. Can't remember the source. I think that the French frequently wore greatcoats or dust coats – more than other nations, though I have no idea why.

In 1815 the ex-Berg troops in the Prussian army started to wear greatcoats to make them blend in better with their comrades in other regiments – and reduce the calls for them to change sides from the French. Which implies that normal practice was not to wear them.

My 15mm French artillery crew from Fantassin, as they then were, are in greatcoats. I didn't realise it when I ordered them. Haven't painted them yet. Plan to paint the coats blue and call them Marines for use at Waterloo – though I'm not sure how historical that is.

French cavalry in cape/cloaks are rare too though Perry just did some for the 1812 Russian campaign but those are not in issued gear but in ad hoc stuff. They also did Russian dragoons in coats so maybe they aren't done yet.

I really want Russian Jaegers skirmishing or firing in coats and shakos – they only have them in fatigue caps now.

I don't think the British ever wore their greatcoats in battle

They wore them during the expedition to Holland in 1814 which failed to take Bergen-op-Zoom. This makes sense as the campaign was very much conducted in the winter.

18mm AB Russians in great coats are on our web site here:
link

Artillery crews also in greatcoats due in around three weeks time

Nic EUREKA MINIATURES

The Perrys appear to have "just released" some Russian Line Artillerists and hussars in greatcoats, in 28mm of course. They look terrific too.

Jarhead

I don't think the British ever wore their greatcoats in battle

British were issued with greatcoats. My books are currently in storage so I can't check the references IIRC tentage wasn't issued until about 1813

Interestingly in WWII British infantry was depedant on greatcoats because the tentage was carried on vehicles and didn't always keep up with the troops.

They wore them during the expedition to Holland in 1814 which failed to take Bergen-op-Zoom. This makes sense as the campaign was very much conducted in the winter.

I'll have to look into which units were involved in that operation. I've got a unit of British in greatcoats but I haven't given them standards yet. It would be nice to give them colours appropriate to a unit that actually wore their greatcoats in the field.

I have AB Russians in greatcoats and I've seen Essex Brits in greatcoats.

Irregular do some fairly generic 6mm infantry in greatcoats and short shakos (they are supposed to be 1860s Piedmontese) but they are great standins for Austrians too.

All good stuff chaps. Thanks for the feedback.

Old Glory do 25mm/28mm Russians in greatcoats. Useful for the 1806-07 winter campaign.

v/r

Joe

British infantry were ordered to leave their greatcoats in the disembarkation ports during the Waterloo campaign, by order of Wellington, but I think he also issued similar orders in the Peninsula as well and probably few British infantry wore them in the latter half of the Spanish campaigns. I believe they were worn in America – there was one action where the enemy were deceived into thinking a regular unit was Canadian militia – and got a nasty shock.

I've got a unit of British in greatcoats but I haven't given them standards yet. It would be nice to give them colours appropriate to a unit that actually wore their greatcoats in the field.

Graham's Army during the 2nd Advance on Antwerp
as of Jan 30, 1814:

1 DIVISION
Guards Brigade
2/1st Guards
2/Coldstream Guards
2/3rd Guards

1st Brigade
2/44th
1/55th
2/69th

2 DIVISION
Light Brigade
2/25th
2/52nd
1/54th
2/73rd
Rifle Bat.

2nd Brigade
1/33rd
2/35th
3/56th
2/78th

That should give you some choices!

FROM: Appendix III, "A Bold and Dangerous Enterprise" by Andrew Bamford, copyright 2013.

Now let's be honest, how many of us even knew that Graham's lot were in the Low countries before Boney even got to Elba, let alone escaped? Is this not a great forum for trivia?

The French were often issued with the greatcoat in summer as a campaign uniform. The period greatcoat was not padded and warmly lined, as is the modern. An authority has compared it to a modern dressing gown. So it was no warmer to wear – and far looser and more comfortable – than the habite. Perfectly acceptable for summer campaigning, when you realize that the habite would be packed away in the knapsack or left at the depot and the greatcoat worn over a shirt.

The other nations did not adopt this practice to the same degree. Although the Russians had begun to copy the French in this regard.

In colder periods of the year, the greatcoat would be worn by ALL nations over the dress coat, shirt and waistcoat – i.e. as many layers as it would cover.

IMHO, the REAL answer is:

Most wargamers are too lazy to paint all that piping on French infantry figures. If you have painted much French infantry, you should understand why. The French infantry have the most intricately piped uniform details of the era.

Again, it's only my opinion, but most of the responses above are attempts to justify the large numbers of French infantry painted in greatcoats to avoid the problem. I admit, it's agony to paint unit after unit of French infantry in standard uniform. But if you want hordes in greatcoats, you should be gaming in WWI.

I have a div of Minifig 2's Russians in greatcoats. a breeze to paint quickly.

Some nations (depending on period) didn't issue greatcoats to every man, but instead issued a few 'watchcoats' to each sub-unit, for use only by soldiers on sentry duty (they would be handed over to the next sentry as he came on duty). This was especially common in the 18th Century.

Eagle Figures do Austrian line in greatcoats advancing as well as officers. Pictures on the link below.

link

Cheers
Ian

Widowson: agreed that painting Napoleonic (and XVIIIth century) dress uniform en masse can be a bitch, particularly in regard to the smaller scales, but nevertheless and generally-speaking, dress uniform was normally only worn at reviews and such, and for practicality's sake a simplified version was worn on campaign which often included covered shakos and, particularly regarding French infantry, trouser overalls and greatcoats; this has been well documented.

Speaking for myself, it's less a case of laziness and more one of being a stickler for getting things as historically correct as possible.

I sometimes think that the attempt to be more realistic and represent the campaign uniform can be overdone. I remember reading at least one account (Borodino was the instance) where soldiers unpacked their parade uniform to wear for the battle. And in another (Waterloo) of French soldiers' gaiters splitting in the mud (the usual wisdom is that gaiters weren't worn on campaign). There has even been discussion as to whether lance-pennons were furled; their main purpose was to make an alarming noise during the charge – so they would certainly have been unfurled for battle.

Having said which, British accounts in the Peninsula make clear references to the French in shako covers and coats.

I take my inspiration from 19th century artistic representations; definitely romanticised but what the hell!

Perry's do Prussians in greatcoats

@Matthewgreen – thanks for reminding me of the account for Borodino. There is another one where Napoleon is to have remarked that full dress uniform was to be worn during battle but I do not have all my books with me to provide the reference :(

Borodino should have been fought in parade dress, but what is parade dress, after monthis of campaigning, breeches and long white parade gaiters thrown away – that would leave a tunic with long campaign trousers.
As for Westfalian officers e.g. they were allowed to wear their dark blue surtout because almost none had the white parade coat with them in the field.
Lejeune, shows despite offical orders, certainly also French infantry in great coats as well.
On the other hand I agree that field look can be overdone for a lot of battles.

I notice that Blue Moon do a nice range of 18mm Napoleonics that include separate French infantry codes in dress, campaign and greatcoats! They also have Russians in campaign dress as well as in greatcoats, including the Pavlovski Guards! You can't really argue with that. The artillery and cavalry still have to freeze though!

Good point vW. As I recollect the quote was from an Italian unit – and plumes were a particular point (though I may be mis-remembering that bit).

I know there's plenty of evidence that the French threw out gaiters (Blaize for example) on camapign, but I was intrigued when they excavated mass graves of the retreating French at Vilnius, many were wearing gaiters. Not the white ones though.

Confess I always thought they wore gaiters under the overall trousers…………?

I was intrigued when they excavated mass graves of the retreating French at Vilnius

IIRC, those bodies weren't from the retreating French army, but were typhus victims who died on the way into Russia.

they did not threw out all gaiters, but – they had to carry in theory – white gaiters – black gaiters and so called grey (unbelached linen) gaiters, so they usual got rid of the parade stuff – one pair of gaiters under the field trousers would do, and yes Blaze is writing about that as well.
Plumes were owned by the soldiers directly – because they had to pay for them, and indeed eye witnesses – seeing the returning survivors from Russian 1812 were surprised to notice that those were still fixes to the sabre briquet scabbards.
It would be also interesting to know how wargamer paint those field units, in overcoats but with spit and polished shoes?

I have British, Russian and French units in greatcoats. I had a friend who had the Grenadiers a Cheval in greatcoats (a neon mid-blue at that) and I always thought it was a shame you couldn't see the uniform.

There's a lack of 1807 Russians in greatcoats in 10mm. Difficult to do Eylau in that scale.