"Where Americans Turned the Tide in World War I" Topic

"If you want to find the spot where World War I became a truly somber affair for millions of Americans, you're going to need some help. It lies about 90 miles northeast of Paris, somewhere between Chamery and Coulonges-Cohan, two farming villages. Just where, exactly, and how best to get there is a matter of dispute; but if you ask enough people in Chamery, eventually one will decide it's easier to just show you.
He'll walk you up an overgrown tractor path for about 10 minutes; at the top of the ridge, take a sharp left, walk another two or three minutes on an even more overgrown path, and you'll see, on your left, a clearing maybe 80 yards long and 20 wide. At the far end you'll spot a stone marker surrounded by a crimson bush. The inscription is simple:…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Belleau Wood and the cemetery are very picturesque and well worth a visit. The German guns and Minenwerfer in the wood are a reminder of the terrible fighting that took place there. If you visit there then drive to Soissons and to Reims as well. The surrounding countryside is lovely. More importantly, the length of the drive (easily doable in an hour) will emphasise the true perspective of Belleau Wood in the context of the German drive towards Paris in the spring of 1918. Belleau Wood formed the apex of a German salient, driven deep into French territory. The salient (called a re-entrant from a Franco-American perspective) bulged out from near Soissons to Reims. The rest of the area was defended by French divisions, with a major counter-attack force in the woods near Soissons. This force, which included large tank formations, would form the basis of the Second Battle of Soissons. Foch kept this force hidden.

Psychologically, the battle for Belleau Wood was very important from a Marines and an American perspective. It is important, however, not to lose sight of the much greater efforts that were being shouldered by the French. Foch kept a tight stranglehold on the flanks at the base of the German salient. He knew that if he could hold Reims and prevent any further extension of the salient to the west that the Germans would struggle to go any further. The German logistics efforts were severely hampered, as Foch knew they would be. This is why the Second Battle of Soissons, which included even more American forces alongside the French and British, was so successful in causing the Germans to abandon the salient. Even though the battle did not reach the main supply route, it came so close that the Germans could not maintain their forces in the salient.

Dear Lord, what a slaughter of brave young men! I cant read these stories of charges across open ground into machine guns without shedding some tears for the extraordinary courage displayed.

I have a son, he's brave but he's only 10, I pray it will never come to this again, that he will never need this much courage and I will never read a telegram (or the modern equivalent) telling me of this.

"Where Americans Turned the Tide in World War I"
What?, All on their own?

Good article . Indeed it is a very important story passed on with in the Marine Corps.

Interesting to see after 100 years the locals still talk about it.

JARROVIAN, you sound European. Are you one of the ones whose butts we saved or one of the ones whose butts we kicked?

Perhaps skipper John one of the Europeans who wonder why the war was extended so the US could participate? Let's al get a hold of ourselves, remember all who participated and all who suffered, I let you in on a little secret no one 'won' in that war, no it killed and killed made the dead heroes and yet we still talk in terms of winning. Check out the ceramic poppy project to see what it means to win.

@Skipper John
Neither John, I'm one of those whose relations fought a war until you deigned to turn up. (both times)
My Grandad (Duke of Wellingtons West Riding Regiment and The Machine Gun Corps)used to say he remembered the doughboys ariving. They were full of 'Show us this gol' darned shooting gallery' All he would say was 'Well, they found it'
My father (North Africa, Tunisia, Italy) was also less than complimentary.
It's not that we're ungrateful you see, it's just that we object to a country, 60% of which couldn't find their nether reqions with an atlas, telling us how they won the wars.

"it's just that we object to a country, 60% of which couldn't find their nether reqions with an atlas, telling us how they won the wars."

I don't think one person posting their opinion on TMP constitutes "a country".

By the time US troops became directly involved in WWI all the main belligerents had lost millions of men. The French, British, Allies and Russians had done the majority of the hard fighting over nearly 4 years of grueling dirty trench war. The Americans got in at the last part and helped tip the balance.

Sorry randy51, got carried away by the crass comment by skipper John

Coming in at the 7th inning stretch…

Indeed, the British could've won both wars with no American help. We just came in at the end to get all the glory. The British could have invaded Normandy without any Americans. They would've needed more of their colonists to help of course maybe they would have to Bring in the Indians.

We tend to forget that our friends the British,brought on World War II by never standing up to Hitler when they could have prevented the war. Once the war started they did very well.they invaded Germany while Germany was fighting Poland in order to live up to their treaty obligations. Or maybe they were just getting ready to invade. It was the fault of Poland that they couldn't hold on longer.

Yes, it is a myth that the Americans did anything to prevent the British from speaking German today. Perhaps in the first Great war, if the Americans had not come in, there would've been some sort of a cease-fire as both sides would have been bled pretty much white.

@Bobgnar, you're obviously an associate of skipper John, and there was me, thinking you Americans didn't understand irony.
You're obviously a selective reader too. I didn't ever say the Americans weren't there, or didn't help, just that you weren't the sole cause of victory.

And likewise, America was not the sole cause of victory.

Everyone did their part, some greater than others, but the synergy won the war(s).

There, can we all move on?

Why the "you Yanks were late to the war" attitude? We are an independent country. How did US involvement in WWI benefit the American people? We had no obligation to Britian.

If there was ever one that we should have sat out it would have been WWI. It probably could not have been sustained beyond 1920 in any case and Germany might have been able to end it on better terms. Might have not been a second big one.

Biggest mistake of many that the US ever made, getting involved in a land war in Europe. Should have just sat on the sideline selling munitions to France and the UK. No reason whatever to stick our nose in it. If only the Germans had learned to leave liners alone and just sunk everything else.

Too many died for us to argue over text …

I don't know what you are all going on about. It's well known that the Australian Corps won WW1 all by themselves.

Actually, if you really want to see bias, try the French on WW2. You would swear that the French had all gallantly resisted the Germans for four years and then thrown the Germans out without any assistance from anyone else. I guess that France had a lot of national pride to regain, but still . . .. We have a long running joke, when in Paris, that the tomb of the unknown soldier is just across the road from the mansion of the well known collaborator.

Yes Andy, and the membership of the resistance included the whole population over the age of 5. They do the real resistance/maquisards a huge dis-service.
On a lighter note, when my parents stayed with the parents of my French friends in Paris in the seventies, my mother noticed numerous pedestrian disabled in some way or another. She asked, 'Is that from the war?'
My French friends mother replied, 'Oh no, it's from the Paris traffic'

'No reason whatever to stick our nose in it' Touche to us ALL today as well.
;+) Parisian traffic, sounds like France need not go to war with anyone else at all.

1914-1918 'They will be remembered'

Where internationalism has been emphasised over nationalism a country can find genuine national interests declining because it is interfering all over the world. Admiral Domvile called this "chasing Half-baked international wil-o'-the-whisps". Such intervention can help financial interests while hurting the national interest.

From "The Lords of creation"

For example: the net income of the duPont powder concern (after amortization but before interest on bonds) had been only a little over 5˝ millions in the dire year 1914. In 1915 it had jumped to 57 millions, in 1916 to 82 millions. In 1917 and 1918, when the United States itself was calling for duPont explosives, it dropped back—but only to 49 and 43 millions respectively. Bethlehem Steel was another great munition-maker. Its earnings (after depreciation and fixed charges) had been a little over 5˝ millions in 1914, had risen in 1915 to 17 millions and in 1916 to 43 millions, and fell back in 1917 and 1918 only to 27 millions and 15 millions respectively.

Bernard Baruch ran the war industries board for Wilson, which had dictatorial power to decide to what uses the industrial machinery of the country might be applied. Very nice if you are amongst the favored class.

Nebraska Senator George Norris said, in opposition to Wilson's call for a war declaration, that Americans were being deceived "by the almost unanimous demand of the great combination of wealth that has a direct financial interest in our participation in the war." … " a large number of the great newspapers and news agencies of the country have been controlled and enlisted in the greatest propaganda that the world has ever known, to manufacture sentiment in favor of war."

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The US should have stayed out of WW1. A more stable settlement could have avoided Hitler and WW2.

The US had little real influence on the treaties that the European Powers impossed on Germany, etc., after WWI. And don't forget, how the Mid East was divided up by European victors. As well as much of the Austro-Hungarian Empire … We still see some of those decisions reverberating everyday on CNN, etc. …

"[Woodrow] Wilson was awarded the 1919 Nobel Peace Prize, for his peace-making efforts."

This should be a red flag for you.

Strategically the Palestine mandate was a millstone around the British neck. Eventually terrorists started a bombing campaign and hanging British soldiers with piano wire to force the British out. This wasn't done for the interest of the British people, but rather against their interest.