"Combat in napoleonic battles: Rallying/Fighting back" Topic

I am at the point to optimize my (homemade) napoleonic rules. And even if i know something i am not sure about some specials cases in napoleonic battles.

Question:
Division F(rench) fights Division A(ustrian) and wins. Division A falls back and rallies around 1km back. Division F is disorganized by the victorious combat. The Austrians have no fresh Division to shield Division A. Would usually Division F be able to organize itself and attack anew before Division A could rally, or would it attack an weakened but able to defend itself Division A? So the french side would need a fresh Division to exploit the early victorious fight.

(Example: Why had D'Erlon time to rally his troops at Waterloo, and the british didnt use his rally phase to finish him off?)

Division F should fight in two battle lines, as it was the general procedure. The second line would be able to fullfill any tactical task when the first line was disorganised, this is due to the attacker and defender, for that reason it was so difficult to brake through. Usually a battle – line penetrated did not fall back and rally – you punced successfully a hole into the enemy line, unless reserve units did not rush up.
In my view one cannot patch up a broken Division in minutes to bring them back to fighting status.
D'Erlon isn't a good example, badly set up, in bad tactical formations, the Allied did not attack because their major plan, as far as I can see it, was to hold their position and wait till the Prussian show up and only then start offensive movements.
The Allied counter attacked however with their cavalry.
It took hours to reform D'Erlons units – for that reason the French had to throw in their cavalry

Thanks, but maybe i wasnt clear enough.

Sure, both sides used two battle lines. But after 30-60 min. fighting both sides would be used up. One side would have taken the position, but be exhausted. The other side would fall back, trying to rally their fleeing and falling back troops.

If both sides have fresh divisions (something like a 2nd line of divisions) these action would be repeated. The defender would try to close the hole with fresh troops, and he would usually be able to stop the exhausted troops of the victorious division with his fresh troops.

But what happens, when there are no fresh troops. How long did the victorious division need to overcome its exhaustion to follow up an the beaten enemy? Or would it pursue immediately? Would there be enough time for the beaten division to rally its troop and try again to stop the attacker?

The fighting took much longer than 30 to 60 minutes, see for example Davout's divisions at Hassenhausen.

I don't think that a beaten division would reform, in case all units committed, it would retreat as far as possible, and then maybe rally, as the Prussiand did after Ligny, but that was more or less an exception – by that deceiving Napoleon who was under the impression that the Prussians would need for that 3 or three days.

The winner wouldn't just stand and watch the looser to re group in the distance – they would push forward, even if exhausted and disorganised – and for that reason you need reserves, without reserves – bad situation.

D'Erlon at Waterloo is atypical, as VW says. There was no clearly defined second line for the French. The British infantry was weak, and probably had limited capability to follow up – though I think they did move in to round up prisoners. They would also have been worried about exposure to cavalry attack.

More generally I think the answer might depend on the resilience and fatigue state of the infantry units concerned. The attacking division might feel it had done enough, and refuse to move on. Reserrve formations might take over. Cole's division at Albuera was is no state to press forward when their opposition gave way.

But mostly I agree with vW that the attackers would press forward, even if quite exhausted. Another example is the Austrian grenadiers at Marengo, after they finally took the village. The beaten troops played no further part in the battle – it was fresh French forces that turned the tide.

The winner might need almost as much time to rally as the defeated. They might be exhausted, afraid, and out of ammunition. If cavalry, their horses might be jaded.

Your assumption that the attacker is disordered after the attack is not 100% true. Most attacks succeed by causing the defender to lose the will to fight. Davout's 3 divisions continued their attack for over 4 hours, even Gudin's with 40% casualties. They only stopped due to exhaustion not disorder. Attacks into built up areas did and would become disordered but that was due to restricted space not the attack. Also, attacks that became disordered rarely if ever succeeded.

Less disciplined attackers didn't stop and celebrate, loot the enemy prisoners and dead? Davout's corps was the most disciplined in the Grand Armee.

Grant's green troops looted the enemy camp at Belmont. Greene's hungry veterans looted the British camp at Eutaw Springs.

Even if the troops didn't break ranks, if their officers had enough of the last fight they might just call a halt.

What you may be referring to here is more of a pursuit. Orders were hard to get out and have followed so if Div F defeated and pushed back Div A it would be more concerned with what orders they had currently and how to achieve them without exposing their own troops to threats. When Div F wins they are very aware they are now further forward then the rest of their army and therefore exposed to counter attack by fresh troops. Even if they cannot see any immediate threat it does not mean they will continue forward at speed. They will most likely move to the area they were ordered to attack. If the order was a formation to attack, they most likely would have felt they had achieved that and would not sit tight and await a counter.

You need to read more accounts of battles to get an idea of when and when not to pursue and how it was achieved.

In the rules I play, if the location is reached or the enemy formation is forced back to their holding area to reform and rally, then that victorious Div converts from an Attack order to a Defend order and now needs new orders to attack further or pursue.

Formations dont just go off around the battlefield independant of each other like sherman tanks!

Formations had holding areas to fall back to if things go wrong. They should be part of the orders for the day so any single units know where to reform.