"Rant at sculpters" Topic

It seems that scultpters these days cause more trouble than ever for new companies. No wonder some of us wait untill full range before commiting to buy.
On the other hand companies need sales to continue a range and promises of release dates are often pushed aside because the sculpter is off on some other venture before finishing off what was promised.
I may have this all wrong… but I miss the days of Foundry when you knew what was planned was coming. Perrys still the the guys to beat everything.
In the early days the sculpter was the manufacturer with desire to complete project. Now it seems I am bored I doing something else?????????

You're sore about those Achaemenid Persians too?

It's posts and comments like this that makes me wonder why I even bother advertising here….

RelliK says:

It's posts and comments like this that makes me wonder why I even bother advertising here….

Agreed. Some people are simply spoiled, and unable to grasp the concept that this is a hobby. It's also a business and there's a lot of consideration that has to go into any sculpt, the prime one being "will I sell enough of these to recoup my production costs".

Thanks, man, for the good work you do.

I agree completely TKindred and ReliK.
To put out the time, effort and cost to complete a months worth of miniatures for the $15 USD Gross return you will get on your investments sometimes simply does not weigh up.

I appreciate costs etc and of course empathise BUT I will not again be so foolish to wait and hope for promised ranges at the expense of what is available now.
If you were about to buy some knights and you were told that e.g. "Blogs miniatures" were planning a range and you waited couple of years for them with no show….Frustrating.
Again if the sculpter does not complete planned work it must leave companies looking bad.
If I sent an electrician to fix your light and they did not complete job is it ok to say " My they are great at their job but had lots of other offers and your job did not pay well enough"
Result light left hanging off ceiling. Then you think why did they promise to do this job in the first place.

Keep in mind that when you say "companies" most of them are in reality one-man operations. So they start making knights and plan to release fair maidens with the profits from the knights. But instead of selling 20/week the knights move at 5/week. And now the profit on the maidens – which will sell slower – is even lower. Poof, no maidens.

It has been a long time since I started a new project. But this year I jumped in to 15mm Vikings & Saxons. Everything I wanted was available and I bought the whole thing in one big order. Including ships, and some more terrain. If there had been no archers or Saxon command available I would have done a different project – Crimea probably.

OTOH I freely mix manufacturers so the whole "are X compatible with Y" thing doesn't really bother me at all.

I'm an indifferent painter, a master at converting and model making, and I dabble in sculpting for one-off figures of what I need. I've also been in the hobby 52 years and I once cast figures as well. It's a thankless job. My sympathies are ENTIRELY with the sculptors and manufacturers. let me ask this, why does practically every Napoloeonic Gamer have in his collection, no matter how tiny, a full regiment of the Old Guard?

It's a stupid question of course- Why do you think?

It's only when you get old and perverse like me that you hanker after the Moscow Militia, the T-26 and semi-comical figures, or make your terrain sections illustrated with fairy and folk tales. Do you know how HARD it is to get a great looking "Goldilocks?"

And you know what? I wouldn't have it any other way. Sure it would be great to have some sculptor make the X rated Version of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" but then EVERYONE would have it! Business is business and the sculptors and manufacturers are perfectly right to recoup their losses AND have a handsome profit at my expense, if I want it-- really want it. They're not in this as a philanthropic exercise, and they're not there to cater to my every whim. They ARE at the same time in it largely as a labor of love, and they would make a LOT more by making duck filials for lamp-tops, working for Preiser for model railroading people, and general Tchotchkies for the occasional purchase.

I personally would LOVE to have 6 Sets of 12 figures each of the courts of Prussia, England, Austria, France, Spain, Turkey and Russia (1) (with Catherine) and Russia (2) with Elizabeth and the horse included! At an Imperial Review attended by generals, courtiers, servants lackies and hangers on, and would pay the money to do it. But no one wants to put the TIME in on that no matter how lavishly they would be rewarded because they would lose so much in potential sales to other companies for knights, mages, Mummy Skeleton Warriors, and Catoblepai (Catoblepuses, Catobleponians)

My advice is to do what I do. Collect the figures you like and can get, settle for substituting those you can't and learn to do some simple conversions.

Besides no one's going to buy the maidens unless they have a bust bigger than Summer Cummings and have a sword that is twice the size of a telephone pole anyway.

I agree with Extra Crispy, I mix and match as I need them.

But then I work in Imagi-Nations.

I tread realism for a while but I found I never had so much fun as in Imagi-Nations.

Presently working on the Headquarters Unit for the Army of Princess Trixie of Saxe-Burlap und Schleswig Beerstein. It uses largely Surens and Staddens, but there are several conversions. It has the completely scratchbuilt "Berline" coach,(with internal furnishing and drawers, the swan filials on the corners, and a team of six, (in parade harness) the Princess, and her husband and two generals on horseback, ladies in waiting, Guards, a little blackmoor boy holding the horse, servants and refreshments, and courtiers bowing and Scraping.

It's taking so long because I am having the time of my life putting in the mylar window-panes, modeling the butler and maid making out behind the coach, the sachertorte and linzertorge on the table (think the table at the recital in "Amadeus." and so forth.

I only wisw I was better at sculpting. Then perhaps I could make the X rated version of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves.. Hi Ho.. Hi Ho…

Just finishing the Princess' Horse guards- A hussar unit from the Surens Madame Foures. Had to add on the pelisse and carve it out of body putty (so the arms would be flying in the wind) convert the musicians (Drummer and Glockenspiel, and replace the fragile plumes on the mirlitons, They're ont he painting table now. Going to be in White on White with pink lacing, trim, etc.

Called-- (wait for it)

Hell's Belle's

The other project on the table is a militia regiment of six stands. Only, the militia is on their "Village Green Holiday" get together. One stand has a formation with officer, color and musicians being painted by an artist, one has them stuffing their faces around a groaning table with buxom bar maids pouring foaming draughts of beer,(do you know how hard it is to model free-standing knockwurst being gobbled down? Another has them playing at horse-shoes (Boy it's hard getting the monofilament wire to hold the horse-shoe up in flight) another with two working girls enticing some young boys into a tent. Another with militiamen gathered around a harpsichord singing, and another with two persons singing an opera in front of stage-scenery. This is NOT a diorama, I intend to use them on the table top!

So give the scultors and manufacturers a break.

You cannot clearly empathize unless you've actually worn as many different hats and have invested the amount of personal time and money.

Nice try though… This isn't a shot at all either, I'm just not convinced, especially if your belly aching over per mini point costs.

Mike

It seems a double edged sword. I agree with Colin but I understand both sides.
On one hand it frequently comes up in conversation here that potential customers seem enthused to buy something but then sales do not materialize. On the other hand companies with a history of not completing ranges to a reasonable level compound the problem. It's impossible to meet everyone's standards as to what makes a range complete, but I feel it is a fair expectation. Unless you make the figures just for personal use isn't it customers that you will need to make the venture worth your time?

just to clarify. If I was willing to pay for a new range at my expence. I bet I would have no guarantee I could deliver that range to customers because the sculpter may not complete the job. That is my point.

When the sculptor is the owner of the company and still, range after range, releases nothing but a small, random scattering of one-offs in static poses before flitting to the next dazzling martial flower… (no names, no pack drill).

I'm not really following this; why do you think the sculptor won't complete the job, if there's money to pay for the sculpting?
I thought that ranges sometimes run out of steam because the initial packs don't sell enough to justify the commission of more packs, which would run at a loss.

I think that this is a rant at one sculptor. He is a merc in this hobby that we all like. He starts a line and never finishes it.I will not say his name, but the companies that he work for will tell you. Mike Adams

It's not just one company or sculptor.

I see it both ways- if no promises are given, then gamers shouldn't expect anything to be forthcoming other than what is posted or on the work bench.

But I like some others have been burned in the past. I have invested heavily in a range or two in which the sculptor made promises and commitments that the ranges would be completed- and they have never been finished. The sculptor has moved on to other things. I understand you got to go where the hobby is moving, but in that case don't make promises. The community will remember a broken promise.

Rant over.

My problem is always the other way around. I do my planning a couple of years in advance of actually getting figures, I've got half a dozen armies planned based on figures currently available. So the worry is that a range of figures will disappear before I get round to buying them. This can also be a problem if trying to enlarge an existing unit, I've been hit this way by the demise of Naismith 25mm hellenistics and QT/Amazon.
However, compared to when I started in the hobby, some 45 years ago today's choice is a luxury. We had a choice of very few manufacturers, and could only find those advertised in the wargaming mags in those pre-internet days.
Expecting one manufacturer to provide all the figures you need complete a project, without having to adapt any is perhaps a sign that many gamers today have become spoilt :-)
And for me it would take away a lot of the interest of collecting an army.

I don't know if I am as old as Otto or not. I suspect we are very close in age.
When I started out in Ancients I would get whatever figures I needed from whoever made them. My Carthaginian army for example had Ral Partha, Minifigs, Garrison, Hinchliffe, RAFM, Airfix elephants, Grenadier and. Few more.
If I were to start Ancients all over again I would follow the exact same procedure.
Whining about how one manufacturer is "incomplete" frankly puzzles me. I can make any Assyrian unit imaginable from the half dozen or more damn fine manufacturers of Assyrians out there.

There are also quite a few incomplete Foundry ranges out there.

just to clarify. If I was willing to pay for a new range at my expence. I bet I would have no guarantee I could deliver that range to customers because the sculpter may not complete the job. That is my point.

Speaking as a professional sculptor, that would depend entirely on how you planned to pay. If it was 6 month's work guaranteed, with regular monthly payments, then you would get your complete range.

What usually happens, however, is that the first set of minis is commissioned and sculpted, and a few months later the customer commissions some more. But in the meantime, the sculptor needs to pay the rent, and will have taken on other jobs, which may well get in the way.

The sculptor is not being difficult, he's not being a primadonna, he's just trying to survive. If you hire him full time, you'll get exactly what you want. But do it piece-meal, and you'll have to fit in around his other commitments. Sculptors can't wait around to fit in with you – they have to work.

I would echo what Lovejoy has said.

At the risk of sounding like "Howard Johnson is right!", I too agree with what Lovejoy has pointed out.

My issue is in part self inflicted. I have foolishly stalled on compleing/Reorganising a couple of armies due to by a big surprise… great sculpter beginning a range.
Of course no one asked me to wait for the new range…my fault.
The problem is the sculpter is gone from the company and IMHO the range will not be completed despite being promised. Basically if you seduce me with some lovely sculpts and get me excited by additions you have planned….I have every right to be annoyed when I have some figures that will never be completed.
Again my fault as never believe a range is coming until it is made.
I appreciate that e.g. people need to buy the infantry in order to fund the cavalry….BUT what happens when you buy the infantry and the cavalry never come. Buy cavalry form someone else you say…Oh but the infantry are not compatible which was ok when you thought of entire range from the same company.
Without sculpters..No hobby. But some seem to make promises they cant keep.

Relic Miniatures online shop currently closed

colin, you hit it right on the head! Also we are talking about the same person, but I will not mention the name!!!!Mike Adams

I remember at least one range that I would have invested heavily in, but it was a limited release under license, unfortunately the license expired just I was about to take on that project.

Incomplete ranges are frustrating, but I can completely understand that sculptors and vendors cannot always make everything right away.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get that entire two hundred pack, eight pose per pack range of the War of Jenkin's Ear but the poor sculptor needs to eat while he is sculpting that range. If the first few packs don't sell it is not a surprise that he sculpts something else instead.

Did mean to offend the likes of Relic who are doing great job IMHO. Some really amazing sculpts there.

I know! I know! We're all not talking about Steve Saleh!

I'm with Winston. I use my Assyrian Heavy Cavalry with my Turkish Spahi's in the 18th century and my Turkish Spahi's with my Ancient Assyrians.