"Ferguson's Rifles" Topic

Does anyone have a plate/source showing the uniform of the on the British/Loyalist Unit called Ferguson's Rifles, they fought at Brandywine and later King's mountain. Any help would be a appreciated. I am looking for the uniform type and painting instructions, also is there a manufacturer who make them???

The British unit did not fight at King's Mountain. It was disbanded right after Brandywine and the personnel returned to their oroginal regiments from whence they came.
King's Mountain was fought entirely by Americans on both sides with the sole exception of Fergusom himself.

I have a generic green coated unit in roundabouts from Perry LI.
I was never able to find amy uniform reference.

There is a uniform plate in the Osprey Philadelphia Campaign book that has a picture of an alleged uniform for Fergusons Rifles.

IIRC they were men drawn from regular British units. If so, I suspect they simply wore their normal uniforms. No time to spin up anything new for this experimental unit. I'll defer to SM if he has additional info.

Hi everybody,

Mark, you can find also an illustration in the Funcken tome related to the US Infantry and navy "L'Uniformes et les armes des soldats des Etats Unis tome 1" The volume have been re-issued.
link

If you search through the wehb you can find the plate.

I know that sometimes the Funcken information have to be taken with a pinch of salt, but I think they're a good starting point.

Regards

Alberto.

I am pretty sure it has been determined Ferguson's Rifles had green short tailed coats, gaitered trousers and round hats. I believe this is based on cloth ordered and the Della Gatta painting of Paoli. It was a short lived unit and was disbanded right after Brandywine.

Contrary to popular belief, the Experimental Rifle Corps was always intended to be just that, experimental; the intention was to return the men to their parent units at the end of the 1777 campaign season and use the winter months to evaluate the performance of both the unit and its weapon. Clinton is thought to have agreed to re-raise it at twice the original strength after Howe returned to England, but the seriousness of Ferguson's injuries suggested he would not be back to command it (and indeed was widely expected to not survive).

There is a small group in the Paoli painting thought to be part of Ferguson's Corps; however, it should be borne in mind that each of the British Light Infantry battalions formed a "point" platoon from the 2-5 men in each light infantry company who were armed with conventional rifles (sometimes called the "Tower" rifle).

SM:

Any further insight into their uniform? I would be surprised if they were issued special uniforms, but then again, I am often surprised by what I find out. :-)

Hi all ,

There's a link from a blog to the aforementionned plate from the Funcken volume, with even a portrait of Ferguson and unit's uniforms but I don't know if posting it I'll break one TMP rule.

By your commentaries and as I say in the previous post, this information have to be taken "cautiously"

Cheers

Alberto

How was their performance? (And the weapons?) In wargames terms, is this different than any other light infantry unit? Is it just a jaeger unit with a different name?
ps: Do they get a special rule that they won't shoot Washington?

They should be rated as riflemen who can mount bayonets. Proper rules should penalize jaegers and other riflemen for not having bayonets. Most do not.
Compared to "regular" LI they should shoot a little further and a little faster than musket armed infantry.
No wonder they were disbanded!

Seriously….
Muskets were cheap. Ferguson's rifle was not. It also needed very well trained men to maximize its advantages.

I would think they would rate highly in morale (being picked men) and using rifles with a higher rate of fire – that all should make them pretty deadly for a small unit. IIRC they performed very well in the campaign.

I think Winston's comments are also spot on.

Thanks for all the help

Any further insight into their uniform?

I'm pretty sure Ferguson himself refers to his men being clad in green – they misled some civilians into thinking they were Continentals during the march to Brandywine. It woud make sense that the items made were "roundabouts" as worn by the Light Infantry.

The Osprey book shows green coats with green facings. Embleton had them in floppy hats with red roundabout with yellow collars. Where he came about that info is anybodys guess. But it probably goes back to the men wearing the uniforms of their parent units.

Bob

I don't know if posting it I'll break one TMP rule.

Rule? What rule?

There is NO rule prohibiting the posting of a link. Go for it!

The "rule " has to do with linking to a website that has pirated copyrighted material.
There was a link to a site a week or so ago that was nothing but scans of a copyrighted Funcken book. It caused a ruckus.

So if a blog has 100 threads and one of them has a scan from a book then the whole blog is off limits to a link from TMP?

By that same reasoning, then a person can never post a scan of the cover of a book that he is currently reading because it violates copyright law, is that correct? what if that blogger bought the book, then he has no right to show a picture of that book on his blog, right?

Does the same apply to pictures of miniatures as well? It seems that a miniature is intellectual property of the manufacturer so permission must be attained in order to post a picture of it on someone's blog?

"Intellectual property" is a term that has no legal definition and is not protected.
"Copyright" has a definition and is protected. No manufacturer has ever claimed privilege for pictures of his minis and would be foolish to do do. In any case this is a red herring.
Site linked to a week or so ago had scans of COPYRIGHTED plates from Funcken which was still in effect. No brainer.
Not only does it rip off the copyright owner but it also es off people like me who paid $150 USD for the books.
I don't care whether or not you like it. The law is there to protect the copyright holder and "I want it! Waaah!" Is not a justification for piracy.

By that same reasoning, then a person can never post a scan of the cover of a book that he is currently reading because it violates copyright law, is that correct? what if that blogger bought the book, then he has no right to show a picture of that book on his blog, right?

Correct.
Why do you think that a blog grants special privileges?
Your examples represent republishing without permission.

I'm fairly certain that would constitute Fair Use. You aren't profiting from it.

It is correct that King's Mountain was fought entirely by Americans with the exception of Ferguson himself. The British / Loyalist force had an interesting make-up though, which results in a unique miniatures unit.

Specifically, the core of Ferguson's force was a group known as the American Volunteers or Ferguson's Volunteers. This unit was made up of men from a number of the Provincial units who had indeed volunteered to serve with Ferguson. (BTW, why this was allowed, when said units were perennially under-strength, is unknown). Thus a miniatures recreation of this unit should include Queens Rangers foot, Butlers' Rangers, and representatives of the more conventionally uniformed (NY and NJ Volunteers, etc.). This group travelled with Ferguson when he was posted to the South.

The rest of the force, comprising a majority of the whole, were raised in the South. Some were reportedly turncoats from Lincoln's army who chose this service over prison. Most were "legitimate" local Tories. Those raised in the Low Country were provided with British uniforms; those raised upcountry would have been in their own clothing.

Not only had the rifle corps been disbanded, every indication is that Ferguson's Corps had no rifles at all.

There is also every indication that the unit's quality and morale were very low. The militia Tories were untrained. The trained men never actually trained together as a unit. Those who point in disagreement to the casualties it absorbed at King's Mountain before surrendering are ignoring the fact that many of the over-mountain men wanted a no-quarter fight. While the core group of Volunteers appears to have been highly enamored of him, Ferguson was disdainful of the militia and treated them with open contempt – a bad idea when they make up two-thirds of your force. He viewed the upcountry inhabitants as being "guilty until proven innocent" and this didn't help him either.

"Compared to "regular" LI they should shoot a little further and a little faster than musket armed infantry."

That surprises me. Usually rifles are slower to load, especially after they were fired a few times.

Here you go.

link

link

link

That surprises me. Usually rifles are slower to load, especially after they were fired a few times.

Quite right, but Ferguson's rifle was a breechloader. I remember reading that some of Ferguson's men, at King's Mountain, had rifles and they had plug bayonets made up to fit the barrels.

At King's Mountain legend has Ferguson wearing a green hunting shirt.

This article does not give specifics on their uniforms. But it makes me believe the men were not "picked" for their marksmanship.
link The beginning of the article talks about the Battle of Short Hills. So the details on Ferfuson is half way down.

"a report was accordingly made to the King, & orders issued for forming a Company of 100 Men from the Chatham recruits for that Service, to embark as this Day- the warning was short, the Command not very flattering for an Old Capt. of 18 years Service, & I had been Obliged to take whatever Men were pointed out to me – they have neither Cloathes for that Service, nor are in any respect to my wish … I shall endeavour to have 60 men more (which there are rifles for) thrown into the same ship … The King proposes giving me ₤100 to equip me."[17] For the next month he recruited and trained some of the men who would make up his corps of riflemen."

SM:

"…it should be borne in mind that each of the British Light Infantry battalions formed a "point" platoon from the 2-5 men in each light infantry company who were armed with conventional rifles (sometimes called the "Tower" rifle)."

Any insight as to how these men were used/deployed on the march and on the battlefield?

From my reading Ferguson's rifle was quite good – the famous demonstration in the wind and rain by Ferguson himself. However, there is no specific mention that I can recall of any special damage done by his unit at Brandywine, the only time I know of the weapon was in battle in any numbers (small though the numbers must have been). Perhaps the lack of training as mentioned and perhaps the specialized ammunition for the weapon. Or perhaps the weapons jammed much too easily because of the make up of the cartridges. I might give the unit a "speed" advantage for reloading but nothing else. And, yes, I have figures in my collection for this unit and will paint them in green coats. When not at Brandywine they will be just treated as light infantry.

@ HG,

No, unfortunately, the organisation I quoted is about all I have found, except that there were one or two light companies with them to "beef them up" with muskets and bayonets; I think I've seen an "order-of-march" map that shows how they all formed up, but cannot recall where now. I would hazard a guess that they operated in much the same way as the Hessian jaeger in the NY/PA campaigns, and the Brunswick jaeger in Canada/NY – ie the riflemen advancing in a cordon with formed "musket" platoons in close(r) order to their rear for them to fall back on.

I know this is an OLD thread, but I'm going to weigh in on Ferguson's breechloading rifle, as I've done a tad of research recently. And there are some nice YouTube videos of reproduction rifles showing the rate of fire.

The rifle could be fired 6-7 rounds per minute. It used 1/3 the amount of powder as a normal rifle, was generally more accurate, had adjustable sights, was fitted with a bayonet, and was 10 pounds lighter than the Brown Bess. In addition, it could be loaded while in the prone position.

The screw chambering mechanism had groves cut in the large thread, to collect black powder fouling, in order to re-divert the fouling and reduce jams and other problems. It is thought that less than 200 were produced from 3-4 different manufacturers. Of course, it cost 2-3 times as much as a Brown Bess, so a penny-pinching government would be looking at that as a major factor.

For gaming, you might consider giving a mobility bonus (less weight slowing you down all day), an automatic cover bonus (laying prone to load and fire), and a reload or rate of fire bonus (due to firing twice as fast as a musket, and perhaps 3 times as fast as a standard rifle).

I'll ad that Ferguson lost his arm at the Battle of Brandywine and took a year to recover. At the Battle of Kings Mountain, where Ferguson was mortally wounded, it was reported that he was charging around on horseback rallying his men, sword in his remaining hand, and the reins held in his teeth.

Gotta give him credit. He sounds like he was a pretty tough guy.

A point of order. Ferguson did not lose his arm in the end but his elbow joint remained permanently crippled. Nonetheless, difficulty in bending his arm would doubtless have impeded wielding a weapon on horseback.

And a question. While a quicker rate of fire might have been useful on the battlefield, it would have also increased ammunition expenditure (a historic preoccupation in the British army). With potential complications of delivering ammunition resupply to dispersed troops, not to mention transport limitations at army level and extended lines of communication, might that have represented a short term benefit.

I am NOT a historian. But I suspect that Ferguson's initial demonstration to the command staff was to showcase the rifle's rapid firing and reload capabilities. Granted, army doctrine was stingy with expenditure of ammo.

But the MAIN advantage of Ferguson's rifle was the firepower. I would suspect adequate ammo was made available. After all, he was only authorized a pitiful 200 or less men to experiment with; so their ammo usage would be miniscule in the big picture.

I'm thinking that if the high command wasn't open to challenging their policy on ammo expenditure, they would not have even humored Ferguson with the experiment. If I am not mistaken, Ferguson was a mere lieutenant or captain at the time. So inspite of his rifle's heavy use of ammo, it must have impressed the generals to the point they would test and consider its value.

Clearly the impact of Ferguson's rifle corps on the army's ammunition stocks, during their brief existence, would have been negligible.

More relevant perhaps is the question of resupply of troops in contact with the enemy. The rifle-armed men would still only be carrying 60-odd rounds of ammunition, and the weapons's rate of fire in thid instance only meant that their cartouche boxes would be emptied all the sooner, necessitating re-supply being brought forward or falling back to replenish. For light troops acting at some distance from the main body or independently of the army and its baggage train, this could limit their radius of operations.

For that reason, it seems that the rifle's principal value at that date may have been for a small specialist corps providing suppressing fire in specific operations, forcing a river crossing, or keeping targeting gun crews and this was judged by senior officers as a card of marginal value.

A very enjoyable thread, I am glad it was revised and caught my eye. Thank you all.

I can see his unit fitting nicely into my Light Bobs game.