"Battle drills in tanks" Topic

Question for the tanker vets on here, what is the battle drill for coming under various types of fire? Inquiring minds wish to know…

How many WW2 tanker vets post on TMP?

As an old tank crewman I'll say we did with our tanks something very much like all other human beings tend to do when fired upon. We got ourselves, and our homes, out of the line of fire.

Shoot back, fast, then find some place under cover.

Good question. Before anyone starts quoting manuals, I'd be interested to know what *actually* happens rather than what the manual says should happen.

What actually happens is exactly what I said, only with strong emotions and lots of language that would get bleeped here. The TC will immediately order the driver to move as fast as possible to a covered position while returning fire, all as quickly as possible. Since the tank is still there, the enemy's first shot missed and the gunner is adjusting his aim for the second shot. The natural reaction of someone being shot at is to duck or at least flinch. Shooting back in the general direction of the enemy, even though usually wildly inaccurate, can make them hesitate for just that fraction of a second to throw his aim off or get the tank behind something.

And hopefully, your wingman iis drawing a bead on the shooter.

Question for the tanker vets on here, what is the battle drill for coming under various types of fire? Inquiring minds wish to know…

It would likely depend on what type of incoming fire, and also whether the nature of that fire was obvious to the tanker.

The first thing most tankers will do is try to assess what is going on -- is it incoming fire? Is it a threat? Where is it coming from? Then the drill for returning fire, or moving (out of the line of fire) would be initiated.

In Robert Crisp's book "Brazen Chariots" he recounts the time his Stuart was struck and penetrated 3 or 4 times by German AT guns before he could identify the threat and formulate a response. He told his driver to advance off of a ledge … basically wrecking his tank in order to get out of the line of fire.

I have watched a platoon of tanks get picked off one-by-one by flanking fire. It was only after 3 of the 4 were destroyed that the last one realized they were being shot at. Fortunately this was all in a computer-based simulation exercise at Ft. Knox School of Armor.

The training involved putting tank crews into sealed simulator "pods" that duplicated the interiors of Abrams tanks … a driver, gunner and TC (no loader) in each "pod", in their proper positions, with all the equipment around them and computer screens to show their outside views.

A full platoon in pods conducted a training combat against a trained computer simulation operator. We (several of us) were in the control room watching and listening, along with the trainees' company commander.

The platoon took up positions on the reverse slope of a hill. The platoon CO ordered his platoon to ease their ways forward to turret-down positions, with the goal of observing the terrain over the crest. But the enemy platoon (T-72s) had crested another hill on their flank and was wheeling into firing position.

The company CO (in the control room with us) was hopping up and down yelling about the threat, yelling that the whole platoon should not have eyes forward, but the simulation control officer would not let him get onto the platoon net to warn the tanks. "They have not given you a sit-rep. You don't know where they are or what they are doing. You have no reason to contact them to warn them of any potential threats".

The platoon leader called on the platoon net to tank 4 to report if he was in position. That tank did not answer. He called to tank 3. That tank did not answer. Tank 2 called the platoon leader and said that he had visual on tank 3, and that it was burning. The platoon leader asked Tank 2 "repeat your last … did you say burning?" Tank 2 did not answer. Then tank 1 (platoon CO) was destroyed and the sim was over. The audience was dismissed and the crews were called in for a debrief.

I have a good friend who commanded a platoon of Abrams tanks in Iraq. He was up in his hatch recording with a camcorder as his platoon escorted a Bradley IFV mounted infantry unit on patrol, when the Brads came under fire and he had to order his tanks into action. He dropped down into his turret, and when he looked through his periscope he found a 7.62mm bullet strike had broken the lense. That bullet had struck 2 inches below the center of his chest. He had not noticed it at the time.

Tanks are big and noisy. They are confining, with limited visibility. Combat AARs recount many occasions when multiple shots are taken, and even multiple targets are struck, damaged, or even destroyed, before the tanks even begin to respond.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Some good replies here, esp. wrt direct fire. How about incoming artillery?

Slam the hatches shut and drive full speed out of the impact area.

In the Cold War Canadian Army we were drilled to do a "Crew Commander's Appreciation" before every tactical move of an AFV.

It's been a long, long time, but I recall the required mental process as something like this:

What is my next position?
How will I get there?
What will I do if fired upon?

This third step involved determining points along the intended route that might offer protected stopping places for hiding or firing back, and also a point of no return, from which it might be better to keep going while returning fire on the move.

Interesting….I've been reviewing a few sets of wargame rules and some of them have the tank pinned if hit but not destroyed by hostile fire. I never served in a tank unit although I did work for someone many years ago who had commanded a Sherman in Normandy; to me it just doesn't make sense for a tank to be hit and the crew just sit there in the kill zone waiting for the next round!

Tankers like Infantrymen try to avoid battlefield flying objects … It's a good way not to become a statistic ..

Mark 1,
Great description of an "action". We use a situational awareness check technique that gives a chance of a TC being "aware" of what is happening in the four different quadrants around the tank to simulate some of the FOW in his area.

Wolfhag

"I've been reviewing a few sets of wargame rules and some of them have the tank pinned if hit but not destroyed by hostile fire"

Sometimes 'pinned' can represent the the tank being too busy taking cover to respond, depends on your level of representation.

Bill Bellamys troop of Cromwells spent most of Operation Goodwood pinned down in a large depression under fire from Pak 43s, Tigers and Panthers while the rest of their regiment blew up around them.

In our tactical rules, pinned tanks may still move, but only to retire, which does not see unreasonable.

People/vehicles under fire often don't realise what is going on, battles are noisy confusing places.

Like Martin says, the crew isn't always aware of everything happening around them. A tank under fire is a pretty busy, noisy and distracting environment. The TC is guiding the driver, spotting targets, laying the gun and giving fire commands, trying to watch for threats all the way around and in the air, and trying to keep up with what the rest of the platoon and company are doing and where they are going. Every little bump in the ground translates into random unexpected swings of 1-2 feet for the TC. In rough ground at high speed, it is possible to throw the TC out of the hatch if he isn't careful. Broken bones from being slammed around is a common ailment of experienced tankers. Now add in trying to read a map, possibly calling in supporting fire, and roughly 1/3 of the TCs trying to keep track of the tanks under their command. All that in an environment filled with diesel exhaust, smoke, dust and other people trying to kill you. That last part adds an incredible adrenalin rush. A tank can take a non-penetrating hit and the crew not notice.

You can "pin" a tank. Remember, the key element is the human crew. Under fire, if they think they are in a safe location, they will stay there. If a TC is hit, the rest of the crew may not even notice immediately. Fire can strip antennae, damage optics, throw fire controls out of alignment, damage track or road wheels. Heavy artillery can disrupt the crew through concussion. All that has to be addressed to get the tank back in the fight.