"How much postage would you pay?" Topic

Some time ago, a company I like to buy from introduced a flat rate £5.00 GBP postage charge to all orders. For some reason, there is something about £5.00 GBP that makes me usually think twice about ordering. I would need to either place a large order, which I'm not doing much of these days, or wait until a friend has something they want to order and then go halves. The effect of this is particularly noticeable when it comes to 15mm ranges as I now don't buy the odd few figures here and there anymore as the postage can increase what I am paying by 100% or more sometimes.

So I am curious about what postage costs people are happy to pay without thinking (within their own country). For me, £3.00 GBP, for example, isn't much of an issue, but for some reason £5.00 GBP tips me over the edge. I think it might be that for that cost I start to think of the extra figures I could be getting!

I like to pay the same rate as I send out – actual costs + a few pence for packing materials.
If its £3.00 GBP to post, I would be ok paying £3.50 GBP.

If its anything I consider excessive I generally don't buy

I've been warned by my local post office that Royal Mail are about to change the system yet again. Details unknown so far but I'm told they will be dropping the differences between types & sizes of package and having a flat rate based only on weight. As I use mainly Large Letter 2nd class I can expect a big increase hidden in this 'rationalisation' – it will probably put me out of business.

I can see why people don't like paying for postage but any order has a cost simply to process it and the difference between the cost of processing a small and a large order isn't that great.

A flat rate encourages smaller numbers of larger orders (and probably reduces costs) and is an option that some businesses go for – like any option, it won't please everyone.

Hiding the cost of processing and shipping in product prices may make your 'up front' prices less attractive than those who add them on as the final step in payment. I have found that being 'honest' about such costs doesn't suit some buyers and they prefer to go to a competitor and pay more overall for their goods – the choice was theirs.

Surely it is based on size and weight or a % ?

I am more than happy to pay the cost of postage and even some towards the cost of packaging. I accept all of that. That is part of the supplier's costs above the cost of the figures and he has to make a profit to stay in business.

I do however have a problem when the cost of post and packaging is used to make extra profit. I had one extreme experience in the past where I paid £40.00 GBP (25%) postage and packaging only to receive my figures in a re-used envelope with postage stamps to the value of £7.00 GBP on it. This really annoyed me and when I politely enquired by phone the supplier roundly abused me. Needless to say I never used his services again.

I have had other experiences but have not complained. Sometimes you gain and sometimes you lose. A flat charge therefore has its advantages as I know exactly in advance how much it will cost and then I can decide whether I am willing to pay or not.

If there was a local shop, do you consider the time and petrol, to pick up the item?
To be honest, we are all a bit of a Scrooge when it comes to spending on our hobby. However, we miss the big picture. Do we really need to assemble both sides for the battle of Hoth, which we will only play once in the next 3 years! ;)

Tony, the forthcoming changes are nothing to worry about. Large letter rates are unchanged – seems to be just tinkering with the small parcel category, as they're clearly losing trade to other firms there.

More details here – looking at the PDF I can't see many changes, and those seem to be in the customer's favour for once.

link

I like to pay as little as possible, but understand that postage costs are going up worldwide. I try & buy at shows, but I have to make some mail-order purchases. It's always difficult ordering from non-EU countries, balancing the double bugbear of postage & import duties (plus the extortionate handling charge).

However £5.00 GBP postage isn't a deterrent, unless I was only ordering about £15.00 GBP-£20 worth of minis. I try and make as large an order as I can from one source wherever possible. My orders from the USA/Canada have dropped significantly over the last year though due to the increase in postage costs.

Interesting article on the BBC about new parcel sizes & how complicated it has become. link

I always look at TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). I drive car dealers mad doing this. Back to topic, I add up the cost of the product and the postage and if that total looks reasonable I buy the item. So much like the original post says I may wait to combine orders or not buy at all.

From 20th October, Royal Mail is increasing the size of the largest acceptable box for Small Parcels to 45cm x 35cm x 16cm. (I've seen the new one, it's about a quarter bigger than the old)and they are also reducing the cost of Small Parcels, 2nd class, to £2.80 GBP. There might be other changes I haven't heard about yet.

Details here – royalmail.com/prices-2014

The staff at my Post Office seem to think RM has been hit by the courier trade and is trying to pull customers back in.

I try to get free postage by ordering enough stuff (if that is an option) but mostly I pay whatever I have to in order to get the things I want. I know Fieldworks charges 50% of the order to ship their products, as do a number of other resin scenery manufacturers out there. I have gladly paid it because their buildings are so nice and I wanted them.

There are plenty of things I can cheap out on in my life but my hobby is NOT one of them! Personally I think five pounds is a very reasonable cost for shipping, unless you are just getting one pack of minis or something. And I have NEVER done that. 8)=

Definitely Sue – the restrictive size of the small parcel category has seen them hemhorraging (or however you spell it….) business to Hermes in particular – they're trying to put a sticking plaster on that one before the Christmas rush….

If this is the company I'm thinking of ( based in Scotland ) the £5.00 GBP postage covers the whole world, so perhaps a bargain for those over the Pond. Free postage if you order over £75.00 GBP Shame as I only want one 15mm plains Indian chief! :-(

Postage costs have increased markedly in recent years, especially via Royal Mail.

I'd say 10% of the order with a minimum postage fee of £2.50 GBP and a maximum of £10.00 GBP would be about right, as you can send a pretty heavy parcel via courier for this amount, and could probably afford to absorb any extra if a customer is paying over £100.00 GBP anyway.

I'm very small scale in only selling via that well- known internet auction site, but only ever use Royal Mail for sending very small packages now, as I find it far more reasonable and convenient to use a tracked courier that allows me to drop packages off at any local CO- OP local shop/ convenience store.

Wargamers famously don't like paying shipping costs, even though we tend to buy things made of lead. I'm like this too. This is why, should I ever make a large, bulky figure that I could sell for $5 USD, but would cost $5 USD to send it, I'll charge $9.95 USD, with 5 cents shipping.

I am only half joking.

5 pounds seems pretty reasonable unless you are only looking for a handful of figures, in which I would contact the company to see if they could help me out. In the US, I expect to pay a minimum of $6 USD to $8 USD, more for a larger order.

Why the post office wants to charge more for shipping a rule book than it costs retail is beyond me. I especially do not understand the outrageous costs to ship between the US and Canada. What happened to NAFTA?

The cost of the item being shipped has no bearing on the postage costs unless you get additional services like insurance, etc.

Since the local office told me about this a couple of weeks ago I now see that the RM has announced the changes. This is the 2nd time they have adjusted the small parcels sizes and prices, luckily for me they have left the LL prices alone (for now).

It does seem strange all these people using courier services – every time I check, RM is cheaper by a significant margin for small packages. It changes when you want to send over 2kg but, under that, RM still comes out best.

Hermes are £2.78 GBP for 1 kg and £3.78 GBP for 2 kg. While they typically take 3-5 days, that comes with tracking as well, so is competitive on small parcels, and a massive difference if dimensions make it a medium parcel with Royal Mail.

Like some others here I add up the total cost for the order and consider whether it is worth it.

It's a hobby purchase so by definition I don't need it but want it and can afford it, and I'm only looking at online / mail order because it isn't available locally. I'll certainly look for an alternate source or to increase the order size to drive down the average cost of postage, if those options exist, but bottom line this is what it costs to get it.

We charge $8 USD to ship any order internationally and all shipping on orders of $75 USD or more are free anywhere in the world, but then we are making our own products, and as such, we do not have a wholesale cost, just materials. We eat a little on shipping, but still make a decent profit overall. We just chalk it up as the cost of doing business, and we feel our relatively cheap shipping has helped our international sales considerably.

On domestic orders, we undercharge too, but only a little, for much the same reason.

Wow, that's cheaper than I had found previously but still not worth a 2km walk to drop it off and save 2p. I have found this in the past, we seem to live in a blind spot for most courier services. One even classes us as 'remote rural' and we are less than 1km from a main Post Office, Railway and Bus stations and the local district council offices !!!

To be honest, Large letter and small parcel are likely to meet about 99% of my needs so I can't complain.

I charge actual postage. For smaller orders (under 2kGs) use Royal mail (2.80-£5.60), over 2kGs use 'Parcel2Go' or 'Collect plus' as a lot cheaper than RM.

£5.00 GBP fixed postage price isn't bad, would only be concerned if only ordering a small number of figures & postage a fairly high proportion of total cost.

Like most people gained habit of just waiting until can afford enough figures make worth ordering.

Regards

MMG.

I always look at the total cost to me before buying or ordering. Something that seems lost on the eBay community. Strangely enough, it seems to cost to get items from Canada than the UK, even though we share the same continent. There is nothing about my hobby that I *need* just things that I *want.* As such I look at things closely.

To answer the OP: If I'm ordering from the UK, 5 pounds would be okay with me. If it is stateside and they want $7.80 USD it is more dicey.

Postage cost are becoming a every more rising cost due in part to the amount of online purchasing going on in all areas of life.

Large companies that offer free postage or very limited postage are also companies that are getting rather large discounts from the suppliers because of the volume they purchase.

But for small companies that are a one man show you have either two choices, charge for postage plus the cost for materials to package and get the parcel to the post office, or hide the cost of postage in price of the miniature, which is what Mexican Jack pointed out, which some companies do.

Now, as consumer, I also base my purchases on the postage cost and have felt at times that companies were less than honest in postage cost, especially when the postage cost totally wiped out the sale discount. But, as a person in this business, even if you are using USPS flat rate boxes, which are free and reclaimed packaging materials, the cost of postage can be one of those things that total deplete your profits, making it impossible to expand your miniature lines.

Take a look at some the kickstarters that are repeats of successful first and second kickstarters. Many of those now state that they will add the postage to the pledge price when the items are ready to ship simple due to what they saw eaten up in their first kickstarters. Hey, even the free miniatures added to your pledge cost something to ship to you.

Lastly, you need to consider that many companies are not skilled web page designers, meaning that working with and developing a web page that can total postage based on the weight of what you are buying and where it is going is either beyond their capabilities, or their web pages capabilities or something they can not afford if they have someone design and develop their web page. This is why many companies set a standard fee, and like someone said, on some packages they make a little extra and on some they lose.

As someone who regularly post off packages, I feel that there are many customers who simply do not realise just how much postage and packaging actually costs.

If I were a company, rather than an individual feeding my hobby, I am sure that any time-and-motion study would confirm that in many instances P&P costs do not cover the actual costs.

The only people making money out of P&P is (in the UK) The Post Office, and then you have to stand in line for ages waiting to be served.

I predict that the time is rapidly coming when the post office will price itself out of business.

Tony

TVAG's practice is not to "profit" from postage. There are no "handling fees," nor are any costs sneaked into the prices of any products.

This is possible only because I default on Domestic Orders (within the US) to USPS Flat Rate Priority Mail. As mentioned before, ALL such packaging/mailers are free to the shipper, and I recycle such bubble wrap/"peanuts" that come to me as a fan of recycling, and as a penny-pinching-bastard.

However, where I and many of my customers are getting hammered is Overseas orders. USPS Flat Rate International Priority Mail (to the UK, Europe, Australia, Singapore, and all points in between) is currently a minimum of $24.00 USD USD. In practice, this allows shipments to arrive in around 10 days (often far less), be insured against loss, and can be tracked. However, if I were to charge just that amount, as 99% of my sales come via PayPal, I would lose money due to the ever increasing "bite" from that otherwise invaluable service. So I charge some more to be sure I don't lose money when postage is charged.

As long as an order is itself significantly above $24.00 USD, most Overseas customers are willing to pay for the advantages of Priority Mail.

However, a great many of TVAG's products cost LESS than $24.00 USD (notably, Game Card Decks, many orders for miniatures, etc), consequently Priority Mail is more nearly punitive, and I cannot know, of course, how many orders are never made accordingly.

So, for the last year or so, I've turned off the automatic postage calculation for Overseas customers, and upon receipt of their orders, notify them they have the choice of Priority Mail or International First Class. The problem with this is that the USPS Website makes it impossible to pay for such postage unless the item is boxed. The "box" must be at least half the size of a US Letter sized sheet as that is the size required to print it out from the USPS Website. That means I must BUY such boxes, and that's only if the items ordered will fit. Printed books require boxes at least TWICE that size. Quickly, the weight goes up to the point where the savings are minimal. Not to mention that when I actually have to go to the Post Office to mail these First Class boxes, etc, the price has always been significantly higher (up to twice as much!) than quoted on the Website!

In short, when I give a good faith estimate of the First Class rate to an Overseas buyer (often half or less than the Priority Mail rate), I end up paying considerably more than I collected.

Yes! I'm ranting now!

I just lost an extra 20% from my last mailings of Overseas First Class of the latest game card decks sold by subscription. My profit after printing has been hammered--again!

And as soon as the Overseas Priority Mail rate goes up again--and it will, as sure as death--my sales must continue to fall.

I'm exploring some possible options, but if it were at all possible, I'd charge only postage to the penny to all my customers, but soon enough, mailing something Overseas is going to be a hobby only for the rich.

And, no, I don't feel any better for the rant.

TVAG

Tony

The Post Office doesn't set prices, that is done by the Royal Mail. They have been separate businesses for a very long time.

If the RM went out of business then you'd be left with a bunch of bulk shifters who wouldn't deliver to anywhere that cost them extra, would deliver on days and at times that suited them and have no legal mandate to deliver (only the RM have that) and can toss away your mail because it isn't a criminal offence to do that (as it would be if you were a RM Postman).

Ordering hobby goods from O/S to here in Oz has always incurred an horrendous postage impost. It's just one of the drawbacks we've had to accept to living in an earthly paradise :).

But things have generally improved over the years; pre-internet many UK suppliers charged a flat rate of 50% for airmail!

Personally, I've always mostly bought in bulk to minimise the per-item cost, but I'm confident those days are behind me, and future purchases will mainly consist of the occasional ruleset, and maybe a box or two of plastics – for which I don't mind paying whatever the local B & M shop is charging (they always discount a little anyway, for regular customers).

I'm in the USA and while I don't run a company of any type, I do ALOT of trading. It's given me a really good idea of what a given product costs to post. If It looks like a company is making a profit on shipping I go elsewhere.

I realize that there are gas-to-post-office and packaging costs involved, but that doesn't carry much weight with me. I don't let the guy in my FLGS add on a charge for bills and paying his employees. That cost is in the product. Likewise, I'm not against a a mail order company adding a smidge, but if they want to charge me a premium for their gilded shipping materials, I'll probably look elsewhere.

That said, if it's something I "have" to have, or the item price is low enough to offset the higher shipping costs, I'll buy it anyway.

For almost all my wargaming life postage has been a killer here in New Zealand. Anywhere from 30-50% of an order. I have found that nowadays it is not so painful. Postage free sales help.

Just remember that anyone buying from a UK based supplier who is VAT registered does not pay VAT on the price of the goods. This can often mean that you pay LESS than someone in the UK for the same items.

Let me show you what I mean, taking a 10% postage charge for a UK customer and a 25% for someone living in, say the USA. They both buy an item costing £30.00 GBP ex VAT.

The UK customer pays:

Item £30.00 GBP
P&P £ 3.00
VAT £ 6.60

Total £39.60 GBP

The US customer pays

Item £30.00 GBP
P&P £ 7.50

Total £37.50 GBP

This may be messed around with different companies' charge rates or minimum postal charges but the principle holds. People buying from outside the UK are not getting as bad a deal as it may seem.

Bear in mind that only larger firms are VAT registered though….

Shipping costs are a difficult one for our company as we tend to send lightweight, bulky items (foam trays), but also small, lightweight items (Litko markers).
We can only have so many different postage options on the website and we try and be as fair as we can. We have tried many different shipping options, including RM, My Hermes, APC Overnight and DPD.
My Hermes are less expensive, but they did 'lose' a £65.00 GBP figure case and to get the compensation for it probably cost me more in time and effort than it was worth. Not impressed.
The one issue I have, is where customers unfairly criticise us for our shipping costs, without understanding the full implications.
One customer sent an email telling me that I was overcharging postage (£7.00) on a Skirmish case (£22.00) and that I had lost a sale due to this.
When I replied stating that Royal Mail charges, for a medium parcel of that weight, £8.90 GBP for 1st Class and DPD charged me £7.20 GBP for Overnight delivery, that a postal charge of £7.00 GBP was fair in my mind, I never got a reply from them.

I've spent a fair amount of time looking for cheaper shipping, and settled on USPS 1st class for overseas orders. I was able to cut our flat-rate shipping to Europe from US $24.95 USD to $13.95 USD. All of our rates have dropped across the board.

Steve Balaz
faaminiatures.com