"Another Secret of Waterloo .The map this time." Topic

"Map Printing Error that led Napoleon to Meet His Waterloo" or so claims today's Daily Telegraph. It seems a French Documentary by one Franck Ferrand has found that Napoleon was using a map which had Mt St Jean Farm misplaced by one kilometre. "One Kilometre was the range of his cannons so you can see what a difference it must have made" (well, no, not remotely, even if it was true). It seems Bernard Coppens found this copy in the Brussels Musee de l'Armee etc.
Clearly these researchers have simply confused Mt St Jean Farm with Mt St Jean Village. The map does not do so.
We may see a lot more of this sort of thing in the coming year. "Boney's defeat, the latest excuse"

The real secret was the sandwich he was hiding in his vest was loaded with salmonella, hence his frequent breaks from the battle… I saw it somewhere on the internet, it must be true.

No, no, no!

He just rolled too many 'ones'.

:)

That's why the B-52 carpet bombing didn't work!!!

That's why Andy Jackson and Da Boyz got lost and didn't make it in time!!!

And Grouchy's GPS wasn't calibrated…..

Napoleon was in fact an alien. That's right a little green alien.

It wasn't. that he rolled too many ones. Nosey handed Ney loaded dice at Quatre Bras.
Bob

We have had thrombosed piles, nephritis, ineffective subordinate commanders, hopeless staff work, the rain, treason and divine providence all implicated. Anything, but admit Napoleon needed no help and lost the campaign through his own atypical lassitude and complacency, a remarkable decision by the Prussians to hang on in Belgium, at great risk, and an unexpectedly superb performance by most members of "An Infamous Army" on 18th June.

I feel a book coming on. Everyone else is doing it, after all.

I think the Allies had something to do with it.

The map reading error might have had some effect on the battle along with many other elements in the campaign.
It is discussed in Bernard Coppens' excellent little booklet "Waterloo Récit critique" ed. La Patience 2004.
Coppens can hardly be accused of being a Bonaparttist, he is very critical of the emperor but his research is usually sound

did the "map eror" leaded him to give battle or just put some unexpected mess in his battle order ?

If first one title do deserve it's naming otherwise it's just fog of war event , no much fuss to play with evenless something to think napoelonic megalomaniac adventure would have ended better.

As a matter of facts would Napoleon never had made it back from elbae to play a 100 days failure , Talleyrand had managed to deal previous peace with france keeping pre-empire fontiers … thus having belgium a french departement , this would definitivly have changed much of following history in more ways then a longuer try at empire revival which was bound to crumble because of too many dictatorial endeaviours from Napoelonic monarchistic system.

Well I have read before that Boney might have thought "the farm", that was such a problem in the centre, was called Ferme de Mt St Jean and not La Haye Sainte. But the idea that one cannonball was deflected by any misunderstanding about the name of the complex that was so obvious to anyone…is ludicrous.

The whole field is so familiar to us now, we cannot fathom the problems that Napoleon's Staff might have faced, as to quite what faced them over that ridge. Indeed, confusion about place names seems to have led d'Erlon astray, as he marched on Ligny. Try following the Prussian route now from Wavre to Mt St Jean…not one village has the name from 200 years ago!

It matters not a fig. This is just the latest nonsense about 1815 and we will see many more such "sensational revelations" of the truth, that we have all missed for so long.

It is a complex story and Bernard Coppens has strong arguments to push forward his hypothesis. Napoléons as well as his complete staf's mistake had of course far reaching effect, when N attacked what he tought main battle line or last battle line of Wellington, it was in fact only the middle sector of the battle field.
In case one is interested – one has to read the works of Bernard Coppens front to cover – certainly his hypothesis is not falling in sensational revelations.

the Ferraris map on which the map was based Napoleon used

link

Look at it and compare

This is correct and again disproves what the article is claiming. I had seen this before, but very grateful for the reminder. Fascinating to also note how the woods/orchard in front of Hougomont had been much more formally laid out….clearly in a decline by the time of Waterloo Battle

Wellington knew the battlefield………..
" it may surprise you to know Picton, that I saw this ground a year ago, and kept it in my pocket"

:)

What a good point. No on ever talks about Wellington's knowledge of the area…they just assume Christopher Plummer knew his way around.

But……..Hang on….what about Blucher and von Bulow? They must have had very little idea of the lie of the land…yet still showed professional military skills. This map business is nonsense. You march to the sound of the guns and…..oh hang on, maybe not? Not all did, but de Grouchy meant to…and even if he had…….

Von Winterfeldt – what kind of map is that? Seriously, this is what they used?

Since Napoleon personally reconnoitered the allied position on the Mont St. Jean ridge and the objective was the allied army and not a ridge or a village, I don't agree, nor do I believe it feasible that a 'map error' was a reason for the loss.

There were staff problems in the French army, as Soult was not Berthier, and Ney made some thumping errors, but it was the Prussians showing up that enabled the allied win.

Napoleon would later say that no one did their duty that day, including himself.

B

Napoléon's map was based on the Ferraris map – for more you really best read the books by Coppens who is discussing this subject at length.

just do a Wiki thing on Ferrari's map and you will learn so much. It is incredible what is available if you have the slightest bit of initiative.

This is showing the battle field a decade or two before the big day and all the more interesting for that!

This has been discussed here and on Nap forum at length, by the real experts ( and I do include von W in that)

Forgive my error. He was C de Ferraris (not like the car guy, from Italy, Enzo F)

So I should have said to check Ferraris' map, not Ferrari's! It has been bothering me all day and thought I must check. Sad really…..It takes an Irishman to speak and write the Queen's English.

I do hope von W comes back on this. We have covered this before but 2015 approaches…….great topic!

And here all this time I thought the pesky British and Prussians had something to do with Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo.

and the Dutch, and the Belgians, and the Hannoverians, and the Brunswick and the Nassau units and a lot of other things – like misreading the map etc.

Waiting for the History Channel's "Untold Secrets of Waterloo" or some such.

I expect the untold secrets will include; their was a lot of fighting at Hougoumont and La Haye Sainte, the French lost, the Allies won, and Napoleon had an off day.

according to this article

waterloo200.org/battlefield

It appears that Marlborough identified the battlefield at Waterloo as the place to defend Brussels from an attack from the South in 1705